DC #312: It's Hard Out There For a Soap Fan

I agree about the Pual/Meg, Put Meg and Dusty, Emily and Pual, or Meg/Graig or Pula/Rosanna, only Candy McClain.

GL/AMC/ATWT/GH/B&B/Y&R Fans!!!!!!!!!

Soaps use to be like crack- they were addicting!!!If they are good- people will find a way to watch- not tape-watch!! If you can't sell crack to crackheads- you got some problems with your goods!

I bielve their are young writers out there... I buy you if I got a head writer at GL I could bring it back.

GL/AMC/ATWT/GH/B&B/Y&R Fans!!!!!!!!!

Soaps

use to be like crack- they were addicting!!!If they are good- people will find a way to watch- not tape-watch!! If you can't sell crack to crackheads- you got some problems with your goods!
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Line of the millenium!!!!!!!

I said it's hard out here for a pimp, trying to pay the money for the rent!!
Preach it people about Paul and Meg, i do not need to see them 5 times a week. Who is their fan base, reduce them to 2 times a week. They have been front burner for 2 years now, give somebody else a chance. Poor Luke and Noah reduced to once a week. I dont think this and GL will last past September of 09, they are trying to get canceled. Stop hiring all these recasts and firing them, that is bad management. Look at Jon Prescott and Dylan Bruce, they were then fired as they weere starting to catch on and i liked them, due to budgetary reasons to afford Grayson McCouch, how much can he cost! Look at Dani, what have they done with her, is she even on anymore, brought on for Chris, now what! Put her with Aaron or something. Poor Aaron, he is a Snyder and he is Holden's son for god's sake. What have they done with him, nothing. Put him with Bonnie or Dani, give him a real story. Casey and Ali are going to be involved in the Nuke storyline, put Aaron in the storyline, i mean he is Luke's brother, but u wouldn't guess it from watching. Put him back in college, did he ever finish, he is just a bartender. He is now on his own storyline island and i dont think he has a storyline coming up in the near future, which makes me sad. You have such a talented young cast, use it people, are 40 year old Paul and Meg really bringing people in. I invest my time in these shows, and there is no payoff, it really is hard out here for a soap fan! Goutman Passante and Bloom have got to go, they have ruined my As the World Turns, look at what they are doing. Look at how much better the CBS lineup was before Bloom arrived. I would be embarrarssed if i was CBS president Les Moonves, looking at GL, would u want that on your network the way it looks.I dont think Guiding Light has any money to hire people, they wont even hire a Marah Shayne, hell they cant even hire extras. How does Barbara Bloom still have a job!!!

Two words about OLTL Brian Frons is ruining it having it how he wants it. Jamie I have to disagree with u about Nash and Tess. They were hot when they started, but only with Tess. When she integrated as Jessica it was over, they were so boring as Jess and Nash the last year they were on after she left Antonio, i dont care about them being all happy and running a vineyard. I dont think this was the couple that could save the show unless they went back to when they first started. I was actually happy he died. Let Tess be the dominant personality, but when Dena wrote her. I am still liking OLTL a lot better than General Mafia. Please dont shoot me people or have Jason shoot me but i cant stand Jason. He is so smug, arrogant, and self righteous i just cant stand it. I just wish the character would die, i know everyone loves him but he is a murderer, a common hitman. Does anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

No, it's not just you Agima87. Not by a long shot. For the most part I despised, absolutely despised, General Hospital mainly because it has become the Sonny and Jason show, a.k.a. Soprano Light. General Hospital is so much capable of being way better than that. I've been saying for the longest time that for Maurice Bernard to leave, giving Jason another good pop upside the head and bringing back into the Quatermain fold with almost as much of a scheming nature as his brother Alan, and bringing back Genie Francis FULL TIME could be the best thing to happen to Port Charles in years.

I haven't listened to this episode yet but I'm almost afraid to because if Brian Frons gets off with very little or no criticism from the panel, I'm going to be very very disappointed.

Glad this podcast was done. Maybe someone will take notice and do right by our soaps. (Once again I sound like Celie!)

I've been saying it for a while but now I'm making it official. I'm starting my campaign for Nancy Lee Grahn on Y&R and bring Carolyn Hennesy along with her as JT's mom! These elegant women belong on an elegant soap. Not the Sonny and Jason hour.

________________________

//**It's the writing, stupid!**\\

Why soaps is losing viewers is,
1. Same old storytelling-The writers keep on writing the same damn s/l over and over again and its getting to the point it is redundant. Many fans know what the ending will be. It use to be so many ending that u have to watch to point out what it is, but now we know the damn ending it is not even funny anymore. It is getting ridiculous and many fans are leaving.

2. The victimization of women-Why soaps writers keep writing women as weak, pathetic, dependent saps who can't survive without a man in their lives. In the late 80s and 90s, women were independent, strong women who know what they want and don't hold back on anything, but now it seems the writers are going back in the stone ages. I am sick of the victimization and demending of women.

3. The overexposed of one characters-Paul and Meg-(ATWT), Kendall, Ryan, Greenlee, Babe-(AMC), Brooke, Nick, Ridge, Donna, Katie-(B&B), Gloria-(Y&R), Sonny, Jason, the mob, Carly, Lulu, the Zacrazies, Spinelli-(GH), theses are examples of characters that has been shoved down our throats day in and day out to the point that fans are tuning out. They are many more characters than putting the same damn people over and over again with the same s/l over and over again.

4. The s/ls are stale and needs new writers.

5. Getting models as actors not working

6. The energy on soaps is not there anymore.

7. Networks execs interfering with writers s/ls/

8. Writers burnout and execs needs to intervene and get rid of hacks and bring in new blood.

9. Actors dictating s/ls instead of writers, but maybe actors do know what their characters would do instead of the writers.

Without DAytime C, I wouldn't watch soaps and the guys know what they need to do to save it.

siomonstuart2003

For over 10 years I've been saying that writers and soap execs are too damn lazy to write for soaps and try something fresh and new. Instead they decide to keep the old method and say, "If it ain't broke don't try to fix it," and then when it doesn't work they say, "If you don't succeed try try again." Yeah that works if your riding a bike but when your doing a show and your old recipe's not working try something else. Stop being lazy as hell and do something else to recapture that magic. Stop resorting to cheap storytelling and letting your actors dictate things when you're the one in the WGA paying those dues and being out of work for months at a time...

To answer your question, Jamey, about what's the justification for Ingo's time off. It's a swinging d*ck... or maybe that's the qualification. So, until Genie straps one on, it ain't gonna happen.

And, Luke, from where I'm sitting that house that Kendall, Zach, and the boys were staying at was not by a lake! LOL!

________________________

//**It's the writing, stupid!**\\

Luke's getting sneaky with that recorder. I wasn't sure if it was on or not!

Okay this is going to be a very long, multiple layered post, so Sorry in advance lol, I will try and break it up into sections so you guys can just skim.

#1. The current state of soaps and how can they be saved?

I really believe that it is the industry wanting to kill it self that will be the end of these shows, even the current state of Guiding light is salvageable (I will get to in a minute), but the problem is these Exec's think they know what is best when they don't.

Let the Writer WRITE and you can do the Executive stuff.

#1.b - Guiding light.

I really believe this is able to be saved, but not by the current team, you need to get rid of all of the writers (there are like 20 of them now) and EW and have someone who LOVES Guiding light take over.

How i would save it: Guiding light is not going to be the same show it was 20 years ago, it can't be. But the current GL can be something new and something just as good if not better.

The way you save Guiding light is by taking on the UK/AUS soap writing model. ((I will be getting into UK/AUS soaps which you guys completely forgot existed in a bit.))

In particular i am going to say turn Guiding light into Eastenders, ((I bet Daisyclover would like this lol))

The UK Soap Model is using more 'realistic' storylines while still having soapy goodness. Less mustache twirling villains and more multilayer baddies, less 'out there plots', almost no back from the dead plots ((Though GL needs a few back from the dead before they do this)), but still doing the soap staples such as 'Who's the daddy' 'triangles' 'daddy issues'.

But wrapped up in Pedophile, AIDS,HIV+ Pregnancies and real life storylines.

((Look up Niall on Hollyoaks who after almost a year of build up is getting his payoff, or the storyline that is grabbing headlines in the UK from Eastenders and the Tony King pedophile storyline. I mean you guys wanna say that the Todd/Marty stuff is bad? watch what Tony is doing, it is bloody brilliant (YAY i love when i get to say that lol) and it will NEVER in a million years happen on US soaps because we are to scared of offending people, we just shoot little boys in the head and have rapemances ))

Also every single show ends on with a cliffhanger, that has to happen, there needs to be a reason for me to tune in and when each show is ending with a 5-10 minute montage with crappy music playing in the background i am not going to tune in.

#2. The end of soaps (as we know it).

Yes the USA soap industry is dying, but while it is dying the UK soaps are still gaining viewers, and still getting new soaps developed.

The latest UK soap Out Of the Blue came out this year, while it was canceled due to low ratings there were other factors involved. (((It was a UK created AUS soap because the BBC didn't want to pay for the rights to Neighbours so they made there own but it didn't work out as well as they had hoped.)))

And there is a new soap in development now to rival Hollyoaks, it is going to start out as a one episode a week serial and then grow into a multiple episode a week series.

So yea the USA market mite be dying, but there is still plenty of english language soaps out there and on the web. Just PM me and i would be glad to help you.

((((ON that topic Nelson Branco -- You suck, i really really dislike you, you are annoying jerk who got me hooked on Corrie! ARG I hope you are happy with your self! lol after hearing NB say it was the 'best soap ever' in the IMPROVE DAYS episode i decided to watch it because their was a big '24 style murder week' and i have been watching for awhile now and the Murder week is this week and i am hooked.. ))))

What needs to happen is Soapnet ((Or someone)) needs to get a 'sibling channel' to air classic USA soaps along with the international ones (Home and Away, Neighbours, Eastenders, Hollyoaks, Corrination street and Emmerdale))

You guys like to talk about how Luke & Noah are mistreated in the USA well in the UK they would either be getting complaints and possibly kill it ((Latest EE gay kiss 'scandal' )) or they could become a huge supercouple (McDean from Hollyoaks, man my FF button got alot of work when they were on but they were a popular couple, Craig left last year but just came back to take John Paul off (my screen) into the sunset, or well Dublin))

Also I think you should just keep your eye on the internet because I know a few things that are in the works that if all goes according to plan mite play a HUGE role into the future of this industry in the USA.

#3. The current state of ABC / CBS / DAYS --

I am a 'new' soap viewer, the longest soap that is still on that i have watched is DAYS (T_T PASSIONS WHY DID YOU DIE!) from late summer 06, and since then i have grown to watch all of them.

In my little time of soap viewing I have seen a tremendous amount of crap, and that is sad. But with in the piles of crap there is a few shinning moments that make it worth while.

AMC and OLTL are both good, OLTL has it's issues ((My main issue is with Tess and some of the writing this summer)) but it is still the best ABC soap (imo), and AMC is really improving.

GH is what it is, I would love to fall back in love with GH but when i have seen some amazing stuff on other shows i can not fall in love with this MOB 24/7 show.

DAYS:...... ME and Brooke were talking about the current state of DAYS and how and if it can be saved and why do we keep watching this garbage (my words not hers lol) and really i don't know, DAYS is the soap that I really don't know what they can do with, all i know is Dena screwed it up and someone needs to come in and clean up her mess, and whoever it is needs to tell Ken C to get out of the writers room and they need to forget how to answer phones because Ken C just wants to kill this show.

CBS:

CBS line up as a whole is the one i am most impressed by, I tune in and i am generally happy with most everything.

YR is on a upswing and i hope it keeps it up, I am actually enjoying B&B, while yea it has it's fair share of issues and problems it is still really enjoyable as a 'new' viewer.

ATWT i am really enjoying, I like Paul, I like Meg but the writing for them is horrible, I really think the Execs LOVE RH but the writers hate them both so they are making them suffer.

And GL well i covered that mess already.

Anyways I am sorry this is so long, thanks for reading

ss john i love ur take on making gl similar to eastenders that would definatly make me watch again

In the 'grand' scheme of things wouldn't it rock???

Guiding light is in the position to be the 'eastenders' for the US. The show 'wants' to take on a 'realistic' style of storytelling so why don't they do Eastenders a popular SOAP instead of attempting (and failing) to be 'The hills'.

By taking on this ((EE)) model you can work with the 'new' filming style and actually find this show's soul.

But with that said I REALLY do not think the current executives / writers could handle it, I really believe this regime could take ANYTHING and utterly destroy it, so I hope someone fresh will come in and do it.

I hope some of the idiots in charge listen to this b/c this Podcast was brilliant and hit the nail on the head concerning what is wrong w/this industry.
Some of these EP and actors need to come off it first and for most.
Stuff like this doesn't happen in Primetime and if it does its handle in the form of ppl working it out or ppl being fired or quitting.

Anyways if I had to rank the soaps I am watching right now its AMC (due to the tornado), Y&R, and ATWT.

I honestly think that this industry can be saved and I give it 5yrs to see what happens that would make it possible.

I think that when it is all said and done there will be 3 soaps left in the next 15yrs. if stuff is going the way it's going. Those soaps are B&B, GH, and Y&R.

My whole thing concerning OLTL is that I am doin the wait and see. I really think there will be a payoff w/this whole Marty and Todd storyline (plz ppl don't throw eggs, that's just my opinion).
And Dena's reign at OLTL in my opinions consisted of great moments (Tess and Todd's execution), but I can never get past the characters that ate the show at the time while neglecting the vets. Those characters were John and Spencer. Both amazing actors, but the writing was so terrible, and this may not be pop opinion, but I will always take what I see on OLTL now than what it was 2yrs ago.

Sorry about the rambling folks, but I do hope someone at any of the soaps hear this and have a "Come to Jesus" moment and realize what dire straits this industry is in and figure out what they can do to fix it.

Oh I am right there with you on the payoff for the Todd/Marty storyline, In my 'Thoughts' post (recap/thoughts thing) I do on the forums here I have been a big fan of this storyline, I didn't see the rape 'live' so i don't have that history with the storyline, and I am one of the CRAZY people that like Todd/Marty together, I know it's wrong but come on every soap fan has to like a forbidden couple, this is mine lol. ((I don't want Todd/Marty as a long term couple but for now its enjoyable, the actors have chemistry and I can't wait for the fall out.))

The way i would rank soaps is:....well i guess just rank US soaps -.-

OLTL, ATWT, YR. ((this isn't the order i for sure 'watch' it in but in the order of my liking the show.))

If i was to include international soaps well USA wouldn't make the top 5...

GH is so bad that I tune that show out, ATWT is so over the place I don't know what she it is, OLTL is soo over the top that it is not funny anymore, B&B is so redundant that it is ridiculous, DAYs is so lost that I dont get the s/ls U get my drift. The bosses needs help now or there wont be a soaps in the future.

siomonstuart2003

SSjohn Eastenders and Holly and Corrie are my fav soaps!lol
I think if a US soap did the Tony pedophilia storyline, the viewers would be up in arms and like the todd/marty s/l it is well written.(say what you want but is well-written-on the psyhchological level)

I was intrigued by this conversation on many levels.

I. Having been inspired by the podcast to review soap history, I recently bought a used copy of Soap World from Amazon for $2.00. This book (published in the mid 80's) noted that fans have worried about ratings since the 1970's.

II. The reality is partially cultural - Our Mothers, Aunts and Grandmothers watched soaps during the daytime. Most young mothers today probably watch more children's programming than soaps. I would imagine many of our mothers would be embarrassed by today's standards of what they exposed us to during "love in the afternoon." As such the tradition is not passed along.

III. That being said - I am still struck by a statement that Jamie said months ago in a podcast about how soaps are attractive to minorities who feel outside of the norm (i.e. gay men, poor women). Soaps need to start embracing that audience. One would think that the core audience was still stay-at-home Mom's in the their 30's, when I am sure (just from listening to this podcast) that it is more diverse.

IV. I would like to know the actual financial impact of the "Nuke" storyline on P&G including incidental advertising on you-tube etc... -vs.- the actual number of people who took the time to write in and protest. We hear that the programmers are fearful of protest, but never actual evidence of protests. However, I really want to stop thinking about ratings and start thinking about stories.

V. Having studied my soap history I was struck by an early Another World story about Walter and Lenore Curtain - it was a murder trial that must have cost two nickles to put together. Lenore thought that she might have killed this guy who she flirted with, her husband Walter defended her in court, then it turned out that Walter was the killer but Lenore forgave him because he had defended her in court and they had fallen in love again.

The murder happened off screen, (no CGI), the plot point involved Lenore's scarf (probably 5 bucks at Macy's in the 60's) , and the impact of that story evolved through those characters and their children for 10 years.

Good writing and good acting is cheap, it just takes talent!

Soaps suck, period, these days. I don't know what Days can do to become interesting again. JER ruined Passions. Y&R has too many non-acting new comers on there that take away screentime from the veterans. B&B doesn't keep couples together for more than two weeks before Brooke sleeps with whoever the man is in the couple. The last time ATWT was good was 2001. GL has reeked ever since Michael Zaslow was forced to leave due to illness and his eventual death.

And don't get me started on ABC soaps. OLTL had some potential until they got rid of Renee Goldsberry. And GH has been like a Daytime Sopranos for so long, the only time I had some hope of things turning around was right before 911, back when Robert Kelker-Kelly was on along with Stephen Nichols...oh and Luke is trash. I have always preferred Laura with Scott Baldwin.

BTW, where the hell was Jillian during this podcast???

I wasn't on the podcast Chocolate Mama....

I've had my own theories on JER's Passions. REG (Evangeline) wasn't able to get outs and longer vacations time as her male co-stars. That's the way of the world on ABC soaps. I'd like to see RKK back on daytime tv he could be kickass on B&B as a new man thrown into the frey instead of all that inter-family swap that goes on there.

IMO, DAYS needs to stay consistent with their storytelling. It seems as though they decide to do a story one week and when it doesn't get the attention they want in the timeframe they allow it, DAYS scraps it and goes to something else leaving viewers scratching their heads. Roscoe Born was poorly used on DAYS and there could've been something better to give him other than a professor that pimps out his daughter due to gambling. I would've loved to hear the real story behind his abandoning Max and his mother and not just leave us guessing. It seemed as though they were going to tell a bigger story and then.. BLAM! It was dropped.

I just listened to the show and it was good.

I don't know when it was taped, but I wish you guys had a chance to talk about J Bernard's "Bailout" blog where he proposed different ways to possibly save soaps. I would have been interested in hearing your opinions on what he wrote.

ssjohn: You know I agree with you 100% regarding Eastenders! It's my favorite soap right now

This episode was a spur of the moment after the show conversation....it wasn't planned...it just sort of evolved after the recording of the podcast. I'm not sure when Bernard posted his blog but this on was probably recorded at last 10-12 days ago.

This was my first time to listen to your podcast and I found it so enjoyable. I was laughing out loud. I only watch Y&R so I had to listen to a lot of unfamiliar talk while waiting to get to my Y&R, but it was worth it. You guys make frustrating storylines funny and bearable. Thanks