HomeTVAll My ChildrenDC #319: ABC Smother Mother Daytime Confidential November 1, 2008 24 Comments On today’s ABC episode of Daytime Confidential Luke, Tina and Jamey discuss Jason Cook without a beard and David Lago joining General Hospital. Bianca and Reese and why Bianca’s motives don’t ring true to the character. Beth Ehlers and Ricky Paull Goldin can’t escape filming in stairwells and Michael E. Knight rumors. Blowing up safes for dummies, mustache twirling Tess and the Marty/Todd rapemance on One Life to Live. All this and much, much more including the disconnect between online and offline soap viewers. Have a question or comment for the Daytime Confidential podcast? Leave us a voicemail by calling (917) 677-9757. Listen to Daytime Confidential by clicking on the Daytime Confidential Player at the bottom of this post or Download us for FREE via iTunes. Vote for us on Podcast Alley. Add us as a Friend on MySpace and Facebook. 24 Responses ssjohn November 1, 2008 I haven’t listened yet but i do agree it is crap when todd/marty are a forbidden ‘rapemance’ yet Ejami is all ‘hot and awesome’. Rape is rape, i don’t care that it was gang rape vs. single rape. EJ had a gun (in the car *rolls eyes*) on Sami that is as bad as a few other guys -.- Log in to Reply Jamey Giddens November 1, 2008 EJ didn’t rape Sami, he blackmailed her into having sex. Luke definitely raped Laura, but it wasn’t a rapemance. A rapemance is when a show purposefully plans to tell a story where a rapist falls in love with their rape victim. That was never the plan with Luke and Laura. Luke was originally set to be killed off, but because of the chemistry between Francis and Geary, Glory Monty scrambled to undo the rape, calling it a seduction and decided to keep Luke. It is in no way comparable to OLTL deciding to have Todd romance a woman he brutally assaulted and passed around like a rag doll. Log in to Reply Courtney fan4life November 1, 2008 Oh please. So Ej and Sami are a rapmance and Luke and Laura are a rapemance as well. My cousin was raped by a man but its ok it just wasn’t gang rape. RAPE IS RAPE> Gang rape single rape LUKE RAPED LAURA!!!!! Stop saying it was ok for Luke to rape laura. You guys are sounding hypercritical and its annoying. PROUD TARTY FAN!!!! You would be shocked by their fans. My mom watched it back them and loves them. ITS GREAT SOAP! And yes Dixie is Kenny. I WANT HER BACK!!!!!!!!!! Listen writers listen top us for once! Log in to Reply Courtney fan4life November 1, 2008 You are sounding so hypercritical Jamey. Ok Ej and Sami were not rape BUT Luke and Laura were. So its ok that luke and Laura got together then. So what if it was single rape it was STILL RAPE! Thats what you guys are not getting. If you hate one than you better hate the other! Its a soap to me thats why I’m not getting heated but yes their are tarty fans and you would be shocked at how much. PROUD TARTY FAN!! Log in to Reply season1217 November 1, 2008 “My cousin was raped by a man but its ok it just wasn’t gang rape.” ________________________ You’re right Courtney fan but would you be okay with said cousin being w/ the person that raped them because they had amazing, hot chemistry? Which is your reasoning for why Marty and Todd should be together. ________________________ //**SIZ FOR LIFE**\\ Log in to Reply Courtney fan4life November 1, 2008 Its a soap. I like tarty because of chemsitry. Sorry that i dont take it so seriously but come on. I never bashed a ej/sami fan or a luke and laura fan because its a soap. Todd should be in jail and is evil but ppl love him. Tad killed Greg Madden do you want him in jail. Sonny and Jason should all be in jail as well but no people look past all that.Its a soap ppl like who they like for different reasons. For goodness sakes jamey likes Shrewlu lol. Log in to Reply season1217 November 1, 2008 True it’s a soap but as a soap fan I appreciate it when a soap tells a story as honestly as the story can be told. Did I want Tad in jail for killing Greg Madden? Yes. It , at least, would have been nice if he went on trial for his murder and we saw the pain and anguish he felt over accidentally killing a man who was purposefully withholding his own child from him. No matter how much I like a character there needs to be consequences to their actions. That’s where the drama is. That’s the best part. This whole s/l involving Todd and Marty is all wrong. I’m not as disgusted as others are because I see it for what it is. I don’t believe for one second this is being written as a romance but as more of a psychology drama. Although, the promos show differently. The main issue I have w/ this story is, “Would Todd really do this?” Would Todd take a woman who has amnesia and lie to her and withhold truths from her to benefit himself? Yes. Would he do that to Marty? No. He and Marty have come too far for him to do something so disgusting, so despicable, so vile to the woman he ganged raped years ago. She testified for him in open court when Blair accused him of rape. SHE, Marty, TESTIFIED FOR THE MAN THAT VICIOUSLY GANGED RAPED HER and this is how he repays her?! Plus, Marty is not Laura nor is she Sami. The choices that both those women have made during the course of their lives are not the same that Marty has nor would she have ever made. Marty would never willing fall for her rapist. ________________________ //**SIZ FOR LIFE**\\ Log in to Reply Karissa November 1, 2008 Just listen to the ABC podcast and agree with the things said about the Todd and Marty situation. I was in my teens when Marty was raped and couldn’t help but think how horrible(tragic it was) and for them to try and pull this bull crap now is an insult to my intelligence as a viewer. It is a major insult to me as a female and the friend of a rape victim. Really what Todd did to Marty was unforgivable but they did and now then turn him into a worse monster. I also agree with what you said about Bianca and Zach and it being out of character. However, I don’t agree Jamey that AMC sucks ass not when you have that train wreck on CBS called Guiding Light. In fact I enjoyed the tornado storyline and what happen afterwards better than GL and ATWT combined Log in to Reply ssjohn November 1, 2008 Okay and this is why I don’t reply until I listen lol. I didn’t see the Marty gang rape ‘live’ and i think that mkaes a difference, if you see something ‘live’ it impacts you more and thats why the ‘ejami’ thing bothers me. And yea i have heard the whole ‘it was blackmail, etc’ argument before, and yea to some extent it was but it was still a ‘form’ or rape. I am enjoying the Todd/Marty storyline, but with that said I never wanted them to have sex *ughhhhh*, Ive always been waiting for Marty’s memory to come back and for the fallout to happen. I don’t think this storyline ‘should have’ been told, i do think TSJ/SH have amazing chemistry so i hate to see them broken up but they have to be. On topic of Tina using llanviewnet *cough* google *cough* THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE FLIPPING OUT ABOUT??????? dude maybe llanviewnet anoynamizes your data, maybe they are going to be like google and say ‘no’ to the government wanting to know who searched for what ((okay they originally said no but i don’t remember the fall out it mire have changed)). Anyways this is getting long, good episode Log in to Reply Jamey Giddens November 1, 2008 You know what guys, I might have totally bought this storyline had Marty fallen in love with Todd in her right mind. That’s the other major issue for me. Laura fell for Luke with all her mental capacities in check, so did Sami for EJ. The fact that Marty doesn’t remember what Todd did to her and now he is going to penetrate a woman he brutally assaulted without her full knowledge is so creepy. Log in to Reply ssjohn November 1, 2008 Yep, i totally agree, and if she had fallen for Todd in her right mind i would have probably ran over to llanview and smacked the microchip out of her brain. And in reality Jamey don’t you think the exact same people that are up in arms over the current version of Todd/Marty would be even more offended if she had her mind and then FELL IN LOVE? I think that would have killed the storyline for me because i wouldn’t see a end, I have seen a end to Todd/Marty from day one, i just hoped ( i knew it would take until sweeps) it wouldn’t take as long to get there. Todd/Marty are the only ‘forbidden’ romance i have watched / liked but i also like it because i know it is going to end and hopefully have a HUGE explosive ending that will make it all worth my time. Btw i love how in this blog post I seem like the ‘real’ me and am anti-ejami yet in the Sandra Ferguson cast on days post people are saying i am pro ejami lol. Log in to Reply Jamey Giddens November 1, 2008 Probay ssjohn, people would have been offended either way. I think it’s a lot of how the network has packaged this story. The promote it for sport, "THe Story You Thought We’d Never Tell". It seems highly exploitive for a network that basically hooked its fans early on through socially-relevant storylines, i.e Robin’s HIV on GH, Marty’s gang rape on OLTL, Ruth’s Vietnam War protests on AMC> Days has never, ever been socially relevant for long stretches of time. Another factor is Sami has raped a man herself and Days has always lived in a totally different realm of reality, whereas OLTL has always been presented as this "groundbreaking" "realistic" soap. Log in to Reply n69n November 1, 2008 season1217 wrote… “No matter how much I like a character there needs to be consequences to their actions. That’s where the drama is. That’s the best part.” i *absolutley* & *totally* agree with this statement! http://www.nornsisland.com Log in to Reply ssjohn November 1, 2008 OLTL has always been presented as this “groundbreaking” “realistic” soap. I hear that and I can’t help but laugh, maybe it’s because i have only seen the current OLTL and heard about all the zanny crazy storylines ((Viki and her alters, Eterna , baby’s coming out but mothers not remembering them…) And at the same time i am watching Eastenders (the halloween who dun it episode is on youtube! but quality isn’t the best), Home and away, Neighbours, Hollyoaks and Coronation street which are all really ‘realistic’ soaps. I mean yea there are all the classic soap staples ((Who’s the daddy, who dun it’s , cancer, etc)) but it’s all real there isn’t much falling in love with you rapist….((Just falling in love with your sisters rapist lol Kane and Kirsty H&A but that was before my time lol)) Log in to Reply n69n November 1, 2008 …not to mention that TINA was about to blow up Llanfair with everybody in it, and all the while she’s telling herself, “I’m gonna save the day, I’m gonna be the hero!”… …& she *believes* it! she thought everybody was gonna love her after she blew up Llanfair! i do think that that is more key to TINA’s character than anything else…i never thought of her as a “take-no-prisoners bitch”, i thought of her as good-intentioned but with HORRIBLY BAD JUDGEMENT & no common sense! http://www.nornsisland.com Log in to Reply J Bernard Jones November 1, 2008 Jamey, BRAVO for talking about the literary differences between “rapemances,” real life rape and how both impact the storytelling of Todd and Marty (I refuse to call them “Tarty,” because I think there are truly subtle but nasty implications in that seemingly harmless nickname). My take from the very beginning of the Todd/Marty story was that it was totally about Todd using Marty to create an alternate life for himself, to re-align and restructure his heinous past with the only person through which it would have ever been possible to do so. In my opinion, Todd has always been “in love” with Marty and — not unlike how you brilliantly described Roger’s desperation when he raped Holly on GL — Todd’s “desperation” in leading the gang rape came from wanting Marty to “love” him, “see” him and “take him seriously.” This is not in any way, shape form or fashion a defense for Todd’s lead in Marty’s rape, but rather how the writing of Todd over the years has more or less reconciled Todd’s motives. It was for this reason I was on board with the story, because of its semi-gothic underpinnings: a psychologically broken man attempts erase and replace the past by healing a physically and psychologically broken woman whom he broke long ago. The fundamental flaw of this story has not been, as the majority contend, that Marty is being raped all over again. No, I think many fans (not all) would have been more receptive had Todd’s current level of desperation been more clearly defined and therefore more palpable. We would have to see and believe that Todd’s relationship with Viki (and Tina) were nonexistent. That Blair was forever gone. Jack would be forever out of reach. And his relationship with Starr was completely irreparable. The fact that all of these relationships have been written with levels of hope for reconciliation or longing between Starr and Blair has served to undercut Todd’s motivation and thus make him seem more monstrous than ever rather than a tragic figure who sees his opportunity for what might be best described as “the ultimate do over.” As you talked about the literary and cinematic history of “rapemances,” you made me think of a more basic level of relationship storytelling that has been a bedrock of soaps since their inception: the idea that the love of a good person can repair or change a damaged or bad one. Todd and Marty’s story also has deep roots in 19th century romance fiction with archetype of the brooding, broken and mysterious man with a terrible secret nursing an unsuspecting convalescent back to health as they fall in love with each other. The central idea in these stories is that the broken person (usually the man) is on a path of redemption after committing a number of sins. Yet Todd’s true motivations or the contours of the story have never been distinctly fleshed out for us in order for this story to have really worked as a psychologically-twisted Hitchcockian tale. The fatal flaw with Todd and Marty’s story is not that what he did to her is his terrible secret, putting her in the role of rape victim once again. The problem is that Todd, on his self-styled road to redemption, continues to commit heinous acts, whether it be roughing up his pregnant niece, the blackmail and intimidation of Lee Halpern and the OBGYN, or plotting to steal his own grandchild by leading his daughter to believe her baby will have died after birth. What do all of these elements have in common? They are all acts of psychological torture committed against women. The problem with this story isn’t the “rapemance” only or in and of itself, a (regrettable) staple of soap opera going back some 25+ years at this point. The problem, specifically, is the writing of Todd. Log in to Reply purplebraids November 1, 2008 I agree Luke about Binks and Zach being written out of character because would never hide something like this from Kendall and Erica or anyone for that matter ,It just makes Bianca look like the person she`s looming for is herself and that`s not who Bianca is at all Pratt can have had Bianca and Resse adopt and it would have been something people would tune in to see but we have sperm gate part two and this storyline is just gross and unbeileveable it`s a nightmare.And frist wife name was Emilyann I forgot her last name .Beth E could have been cast as Pamler`s neice Julie or Kesley and Laura Kirk one those characters would have been better.Todd/Marty I watched when Todd raped Marty and she was gang raped it was frighting to watch I had my sound on mute because I couldn`t take it .And Tess really needs to go and now she has another alator give us break . Log in to Reply dellygrim November 1, 2008 I wish I could laugh at the notion of Passions writers sneaking over with Andrea Evans and trapping RC in a block of ice but it’s as plausible an explanation as any for the trash that’s been making it to the screen. I do see big differences between Luke&Laura, Sami&EJ and Todd&Marty rapes but I’m not sure how to express it. A big part of it is that Sami and Laura accepted these men as a romantic partner with full knowledge of what they were capable of whereas Marty is being victimized having her illness used against her. Having said that I would be even angrier and possibly camping out at the studio if they had Marty, in her right mind, fall in love with Todd. It’s the ‘story we never thought they’d tell’ because we thought they had some common sense and decency. I don’t expect to ever see a love story between Victor and Viki either. Not b/c I think the writers aren’t ballsy or skilled enough but because there are some stories that just should not be told. But I should know better than to have any expectations of the promo monkeys. Is there any chance this isn’t really Marty? Log in to Reply EricasEvilTwin November 1, 2008 I posted a clip elsewhere of Luke and Laura back in the day. I think a big difference between L&L, Ejami (from what I understand of them since I dont watch) and Tarty is that L&L and EJami had this push pull thing going on and then once the rape occurred the woman continued to stay in the orbit of her rapist without much if any fear or change in the “push pull” nature of the relationship. Laura thought she was pregnant by Luke and at one point even said she wished she had been pregnant with his child. She came to rescue him, she protected him from prosecution over the rape etc. etc. and it was set against this surreal story of the frank smith book, hitmen chasing them stuff. The Marty story was set against a more realistic setting and while the couple had consenual sex at one point, they was no push pull that night. Todd wanted her to come back with him but asked in a flippant, dismisive way -like she was garbage – and she turned him down by tearing him apart. After it was over, she reported the crime, went through hell with it, and lived with palpable fear of her attackers. Heck todd even went after her again when he ended up with the scar on his cheek. I also agree with Jamey on the issue of redemption. Laura’s forgivieness was tied into the story of Luke’s becoming the (anti) hero that brought down a mob kingpin. For me, one of the things that might have made this more palatable would have been for todd to assign his history with her to one of her “other rapist” and to get her to forgive this “other rapist” when she asked if all the men went to jail. For example, if he had said this man flew to a remote city in order to help your “cousin”, even serving as a decoy. The man got shot and was believed dead for a year and even though your cousin was later killed, you had less hatred for the man and saw it as an effort on his part to atone for what he did. Maybe even say she testified on his behalf when he was falsely accused of another rape and that you told him that you thought he was no longer capable of such a thing. Log in to Reply ABCJunky73 November 2, 2008 Ok, for starters, those who have seen my posts about the Marty & Todd s/l know my view on it, it’s gross, disturbing and wrong. I do agree with JBenard that EJ & Sami’s was a push/pull romance and yes, Gloria Monty originally wrote the L&L s/l as a rape, then changed it to seduction, but Marty’s gang rape was more visious, more tramatizing then anything that was seen on daytime. So leaving out my usual rant, I’ll leave this point at that. I will say kudos to Jamey, I have never heard you rant like that in all the podcasts that you’ve been on. Now, getting on to other opinions. I do agree that who ever is wrighting Tina needs a bathroom swurlly. Tina was a little campy back in the day, but not like this. And OMG, not another alter for Jess. TPTB allready destroyed Tess, why bring on another alter! Ugh!!! On AMC, if they let Tad go, then just kill AMC and bury it with AW, SB, and all the other soaps that once were awesome. I do agree that Binks is out of character. I just wonder what Kendell is gonna do when she wakes up and finds out that her little sister had a baby by her hubby. I really enjoyed Night Shift, it was written how GH should be written and I also had happy tears when I seen Shawn & Tiffiney!!! ABCJunky *** “YOU ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE TO LIVE”!!*** Log in to Reply siomonstuart2003 November 2, 2008 I agree that Todd should have thought about being involve with Marty, anemsia and all, but then decided not to do it because he did not want to cause her anymore pain and tell her who she really is and be the good guy, for once in his life. But to have him kiss her and then sleep with Marty is a disgusting and horrific act that I don’t think that will make fans like Todd again. The writers ruining the character of Todd for me and I just wish they will kill him already. I don’t think that it is Ron’s fault, but I believe that Frons is putting the ideas and s/ls on Ron and Frank’s head and they have to go along with it. On GH, Sonny does not need another child, for heaven sakes. This s/l is overplayed and overdone and needs to be dropped immediately. the only way I like the s/l if the child is not Sonny’s son, but an imposter child brought by another mob association trying to take over the business by introduction of another one of Sonny’s child. I think this s/l would only make me watch GH again, but if not, I would love if Guza would get the boot, but that will never happen. siomonstuart2003 Log in to Reply miajere November 2, 2008 I think the storytelling for the byronic hero has always held he struggles with doing the “right thing”- but what is true of most gothic literature is the lovers never consummate their love. Nor do they hide in corridors or have secret love affairs. I wish this story did follow suit to a Wuthering Heights, because in a true modern day tale- Marty would not be hidden in Todd’s house, nor would Todd’s motivations be kept from the viewers, and Todd would essentially be written as a very popular character in his pursuit of Marty- like Heathcliff is throughout his pursuit of Catherine. I could be on board with this story if the storytelling elements were in place- but they aren’t. Which tells me, they just wanted to do something shocking and have in the process turned on their fans. And while Todd may not be gang raping her/ power- he’s essentially sadistically raping her- taking pleasure in her helplessness, suffering, and inability to say “no”. This story doesn’t follow suit of anything classic- and is something I’d rather watch on Law and Order where real justice can be carried out. Log in to Reply daisyclover1938 November 4, 2008 I’m listening to the show right now and had to comment… Tina! I can’t believe you dissed Phil Donahue! I *loved* him! In fact, I still haven’t forgiven Oprah for dethrowning him, lol! Log in to Reply daisyclover1938 November 4, 2008 Wow, just listened to the rest of the ep and now I’m understanding all the “rape” discussion on here. I’m only going to say that the idea of a “romantic subtext” to the EJ/Sami and especially the Luke/Laura stuff is off. Yes, there was an attraction between these characters before the incidents but that doesn’t give the actual rapes a “romantic subtex.” I just rewatched the Luke and Laura rape (to make sure that I wasn’t remembering it worse that it was.) Luke dragged her to the floor while she was literally *screaming* “NO!” — there’s no “subtext” here. And Jamey, on the podcast you were arguing that Luke told Laura to leave and she didn’t — well actually as soon as Luke got creepy she did say that she wanted to leave and he wouldn’t let her. And if you want to bring GWTW into this…let’s compare: after sex with Rhett, Scarlett was happy, clearly enjoying the afterglow… After Luke & Laura’s encounter – Laura, with her clothes ripped, was laying on the ground, in the fetal position, *cowering*, crying, and ran away the minute Luke turned his back to her. – sorry, there was no “romantic subtext” there, despite how they rewrote it later as a “seduction.” I get that people can be more accepting of the Luke/Laura love story or EJ/Sami pairing than a Marty/Todd pairing because of the level of brutality that Marty endured, but at the same time I feel really uncomfortable when people can be so dismissive about what Sami and especially what Laura went through (because Laura’s experience in some ways mirrors what many women have experienced – which can also be said for what Marty went through.) Btw, at the time, this is what Luke said to Bobbie about it: “Yeah, I said rape. I took her as cruelly and inhumanly as any woman was ever raped. And when I was finished with her, she was bruised, she was battered, and she was destroyed.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvlL9fuc_U8 Sorry but that’s not what I would call “romantic subtex” or a “rape fantasy” IMO Log in to Reply Leave a Reply Cancel Reply You must be logged in to post a comment.