DC #320: ABC A Madonna or a Whore

jamey speaking of those damn focus groups frons said thats why dan gauthier was let go because he didnt test well with focus groups

Nelson I want a PSA for Luke and Laura. I also wanted a PSA after EJ and Sami had sex. PLEASE! Ugg that really annoyed me.

They have made rape story lines into romances out of HOW MANY COUPLES NOW!
I'm sick and tired of having to defend my couple. Really i am.
its a soap. yes im a 18 year old girl and yes i support them. ITS A SOAP thats why.

Sami and EJ sex wasn't rape it was Blackmail.

Courtney fan, you're totally justified in being annoyed at how people rail against Marty and Todd but most of those same people have no problem w/ Luke and Laura or EJ and Sami.

zyona it is said to be rape on the show. Even EJ said so. So since they said it was rape I want a PSA.

The only info i want from nelson is CADY MCCLAIN!!!!!
Is she coming back or not.

Hey, gang, the ABC soaps are lacking character driven s/ls and the plot points and stunt casting and bringing back fan favorites and do nothing with them. It is making the fans tune out and not bringing in new viewers because of what soaps use to do and many fans, old and new, love the old style romance and action packed drama. GH is losing ratings and I glad that putting is not watching because of the same damn crap over and over again. And the fans are sick of the mob crap and should not be gaining viewers until the behind the scenes changes happen and we get new writers. I also so sick of the "Sonny and Jason" show and the two needs to a long term break from the front burner and give the mob s/ls needs to go because it is not even a good s/l purpose anymore. I think that the show needs to go
back to what it was back in the day and move on with the mob. AMC is the only soap on ABC that is doing something good, but I think Frons will put his stamp on it and destroy it for his own amusement. Jamey, I like u, but Gh is in the toilet and some people needs to go, now.

siomonstuart2003

Maybe I need to be briefed properly on what the situation was between Sami and EJ but I thought that she asked him to help her save Lucas and he told her he would only do it if she slept with him. Was there more to the story? Unless, there is then that's not blackmail.

Blackmail is the extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information. So, did EJ have something on Sami and he used that her against her?

If someone told me that if I didn't sleep w/ them then someone I loved would die and I did it I would feel very violated even if it wasn't legally called rape! What EJ did is probably more disgusting than what Luke and Todd did. He used someone's life as a bargaining chip in order to coerce a woman into having sex with him and then gloated about it. That's vile! And, I'm an EJ fan.

Okay, I sit here and I read you guys defending Tarty and saying that it's the same as Luke / Laura and EJ / Sami. Now, I am not an expert on DAYS and I have never said I was. But I WATCHED Luke & Laura. That anyone compares Luke & Laura to Todd and Marty disgusts me. Both were rapes to begin with. Luke raped Laura. Todd raped Marty. Leaving aside the gang rape part of it for a minute, that is where the similarities end. Laura chose to go on the run with Luke. Laura chose to allow Luke back into her bed. Laura made an informed decision. She knew Luke was her rapist and she fell in love with him IN SPITE OF the rape. This is the huge difference between Marty and Laura. Marty is NOT making an informed decision to allow Todd into her bed. She knows that she was raped because she had a snippet of memory. She knows that there were three rapists because Todd told her. She saw a picture of her rapists who she had the courage to go against in court and testify. That Todd is in the picture she was not informed of. What her history is she has no idea. She is NOT making an informed decision at this point in time. That is what has long time fans of this show up in arms. WE know the history, Marty does not. We know that Marty, in her right mind, would NEVER even TINK of making this choice. That is what is disgusting. This may not be physical rape, but it is definately mental rape. It will also rape her all over again emotionally when she recalls her past.

So, I'm sorry, but ANY attempt to compare Luke and Laura to Marty and Todd is not only out of line, but insulting to fans who actually WATCHED both of these couples evolve over time. I know some of you may not have watched back in the day, and that is fine, soap fans come and go, but please do your homework and read up on the actual history and compare apples to apples not apples to oranges.
For those of you who are DAYS watchers and actually watched what happened feel free to explain your side of the story.

If anyone is offended by my comments, I apologize, but please realize that I have found a lot of comments not just on this thread but on many other threads with these unfounded comparisions offensive to me. Regardless of the chemistry to be found between Susan Haskell and Trevor St. John, this would have always been disgusting while Marty did not have her entire history. That is the part that most fans can not get past.

No one is comapring them tina. I'm saying you keep bashing tarty because of rape well luke and Laura are also rape. Ej and Sami were also rape. Bash them as well. You are acting as if rapemance never happend on a soap. IT HAS. Im tired of having tarty bashed becasue he raped her well there are others to bash. yes they are wrong but i find them entertaining and I am no longer going to defend them. I hate Liason with a passion but i wont bash them because fans like them and respect them but i feel that I'm not being respected. yes I did not watch the original rape so yes i dont have the exact pass. My mother has and told me but she to likes them becasue she as well knows its a soap.

Now this is the EJ and Sami rape. Lucas was dying and only Ej could save him. Ej said he would save him ONLY if he had sex with Sami.

Courtneyfanforline, you seem to be missing the point completely. Rapemance has been done for years on soaps. That is not what upsets me. It's the fact that lots of people seem to think that "Luke raped Laura and then they because the greatest super couple ever" and that Todd and Marty will be in the same group. They can NEVER be there because of the circumstances of what is happening here. That is what has me upset. You seem to think it's the rape that is my objection ...... but that is only a small part of it. My MAJOR objection is that she has no damned clue who she is!! If she knew her history then it would be a rapemance like Luke and Laura. It's not.

And that people keep bringing them up in lots of threads as a defense of their couple is wrong.

If you love Tarty, be my guest. Feel free to love them and root for them as a couple. Just don't use Luke and Laura as a defense for your couple as not only you but others have. Also, I don't consider it bashing when I'm stating a fact. If you hate Liason ... there are threads for that here on DC and in the forums and there are lots of people to help you and argue with you, but as long as you keep to the facts, it's always good

EJ blackmailed Sami into sex. He didn't screw her then pass her over to four of his friends who all brutally pried her legs apart.

UGhhhh okay we have been here, done this and I don't want the dang (ripped) t-shirt.

We need to have one Great Tarty debate and be done with it, because i personally am sick of the whole situation and then coming on here and reading the whole long fight lol.

I guess you can say "Ej blackmailed Sami" do i agree? not really but by now i am sick of saying it was rape and i just want the two to actually be written 1/2 way decent.

And even if it was 'blackmail' it was still the stupidest mistake in DAYS recent history.

Yea I enjoyed Tarty pre 'sex' but now i just want the storyline over.

I have to wait until Tuesday to listen, can't wait

I guess you can say "Ej blackmailed Sami" do i agree? not really but by now i am sick of saying it was rape and i just want the two to actually be written 1/2 way decent.
And even if it was 'blackmail' it was still the stupidest mistake in DAYS recent history.

Preach It ssjohn!!!

Once again, let me reiterate, blackmail is the extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a CRIMINAL OR DISCREDITABLE INFORMATION. Telling a woman "sleep w/ me or I'll let your man die" is not blackmail. If anything it was coercion. And that's no better.

Here is what I found on Wikipedia:

In the course of the story, Sami and Lucas end up in a cabin in the woods. A ceiling beam falls on Lucas, and Sami leaves the cabin to go look for help. When Sami reaches the main road, she foolishly jumps into the first car that passes by. The driver is EJ, who needs her help getting through a police roadblock. He forces her at gunpoint to get him through the roadblock and then wants Sami to leave so that he can escape to Mexico. She refuses to get out of the car and pleads for his help in saving the life of Lucas, saying that she will do anything to get him to help her. EJ agrees on one condition — Sami has to have sex with him. Sami reluctantly agrees to his terms, and EJ holds up his end of the bargain and saves Lucas' life. EJ later states that his motivation for making the indecent proposal to Sami was in order to get her pregnant so that stem cells from the baby could be used to save his father's life.

And if the words don't do it for you, here's a visual aid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuhEDw-rsiM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaOQXxB2y2w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu4CWfxvJu8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofJsaAH3d9g

I would like to add to the above post that the entire reason for the 'rape' 'blackmail' 'babymaking' whatever you want to call it.

Stefano needing the stemcells, well guess what? the old man NEVER USED THEM, he never needed them, he is perfectly fine and walking around.

That part bothers me the most, that the whole "mistake" was for NOTHING.

Arg i wanted to drop this but here i am going on about it lol.

tina I understand but some are just using the rape as a way to bash them. thats why i bring up luke and laura. Im pretty sure if marty knew everything and she willingly wanted Todd you and others would still object.

And jamey PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE dont start on oh luke just rapes Laura it was odd who gang raped her. So single rape is nothing PLEASE!

but im done. tomorrow my tarty ROMANCE is done since mcPAIn finds her ugg. the awesome chemistry these two share will soon be done.

And i was just bashed FOR MY OPINION in the romance you never thought would happen.

Courtney fan4life, I know it is a Soap Opera but have you ever thought about how the real victim of Rape feels, when they see this freak show you call Tarty ROMANCE? And thank God for Nelson Branco for reporting it because now OLTL did hear him, look what SH is doing at the end of the show.Oh and am not making excuse for EJ with what he did to Sami, but we all know what Sami did to Austin.

Wonder how a family of a murder victim feels when they see Tad getting off of murder scott free. Wonder how a mother who's child was kidnapped feels when she sees greenlee off scott free. Wonder how the same rape victim feels when she sees luke and laura or ej and sami. Rapemance is in soaps everywhere.

Like i said I will no longer defend liking this couple. I dont ask why ppl liking certain couples or characters and dont need to answer those questions myself.

Regardless, of what side of the fence you are on all those couples are pretty f*cked up if you ask me! I'll stick w/ Bo and Hope, Jack and Carly, Patch and Kayla, and the like. Somebody dig up Duke, already!

The problem with Tangy, Trashy or whatever they call it, is that this story was HERALDED as some ground breaking social issues storyline. OLTL won awards, accolades, etc. Luke and Laura, EJ and Sami, etc. were NEVER told as social issues storylines only to then be exploited for shock value. There was no big corporation PIMPING with tacky, tasteless advertisements of a rapist once again soiling his victim. And Laura and Sami both were in their right mind when they decided they loved their rapists. Having Todd do this ruins one of my favorite characters. Todd felt guilty for what he did to Marty and went on an odyssey for years into what made him the way he was. He learned he was the son of a child molesting monster who raped his sister Viki and drove her to the brink of insanity and he vowed not to be that man. So for him to do this now ruins 15 years of storyline.  And trust me, I think we all know it's "a soap" well then soaps should decide, are they just gonna be entertainment, or are they going to go for social relevance as well, you can't have it both ways. You can't win tons of praise and awards from the mainstream press and associations like RAINN for a topical, realistic storyline then come back and exploit it. THis would be like GH having Robin decide to inject Carly with a needle filled with HIV-infected blood just to pay her back for being a bitch to her. It is the unabortion of Erica Kane's baby all over again. Frons won't be happy until he dismantles every socially relevant storyline his shows have ever done. I'm sure he's doing a casting call for Barbara Jean Jones as we speak. I can see it now.. "The One Dead Character You Thought We'd Never Bring Back And She Still Has Her Heart! So Whose Heart is in Maxie's Chest?"

I could call this story a " good soap story" if they presented Todd as the Cult leader he is....that charismatic, isolating, leader who's threatened by the world and alone in his principles- with Blair, Tea, and Marty apart of his sick family....let TSJ grow his hair out- and take his town of children and keep them in his penthouse- and battle it out against John McBain "David Koresh" style. Now there's a social story. They could call his cult "tarty".

I'll say this, the moment Sonny and MB leave GH, so do I, and I have watched GH for 20 years.

Sonny is not the sole reason GH has it's problems, give me a break. It's okay for Jason to be a mobster. kill people, be the hero in every storyline, have people worship at his feet, get all the girls, and so on and so on. That makes me sick. For the last four to five years this show has been all about Jason. I'm sorry but when the fab four were on, GH was high in it's ratings. I have never meet a fan who has watched 20 years or more quite this show. Others might, but I never did.

Online fans are the worst when it comes to complaining about their shows. Off line fans complain, but it's not the same, they accept more thigs. Online fans live to rip story lines apart, complain left and right and blame everyone and the chicken sink. I myself have done it, and have done it more since posting my thoughts online. No matter if Guza stays or not, the next writter will be praised then ripped to shreds four months later. Thats how the online fandom works. Thats how I feel.

yuck, Tarty and Liason. What a foul conversation

As for the podcast in general I love the idea of distracting Frons with the other ABC soaps. Too bad they won't introduce a new 12:30pm (EST) soap for Frons to play with and leave the rest of the lineup alone. I personally don't want to see him fired. In this instance I think we're better off with the devil we know. But I'd prefer if he weren't so hands on.

THANK YOU TINA!!!! I've been trying to make the same point over and over for weeks now but it seems some people aren't getting it! I 100% agree with you! I am not going to explain this again, it will only get me pissed again, all I'm gonna say is that Todd is RE-RAPING Marty all over again, and Brian Frons is more crazy & sadistic and he should be fired!

ABCJunky

*** "YOU ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE TO LIVE"!!***

I get that others are more disturbed by this because of the fact that Marty has amnesia and I'm in agreement there but I'm tired of the whitewashing of what Luke did to Laura and what EJ did to Sami. I understand the differences and whether you like "Tarty" or Ejami or Luke and Laura it's your business but call a spade a spade, why don't you! All of this rationalizing is somewhat unnecessary.

Okay here is a summary of all the arguments on both sides:

ProTarty:

It is a show (/soap), the two actors have chemistry, brainbleach is the bomb, if other 'rapemances' are okay why not Tarty?

AntiTarty:

The other 'rapemances' were not 'rewrites' of a award winning gang rape storyline,

Todd and Marty were never supposed to fall in love, both of the original actors originally said NO to a romance storyline (reportedly/rumor?)

There aint enough brain bleach in the world. ((To which i say visit the great and vast Denial Island))

The storyline is a slap in the face to viewers.

What is worse then them having 'sex' which 'some' viewers could get past is the fact that she does not have her memory.

Overall:

Tarty 'lovers' are in the minority, but they have a problem with other 'rapemances' being acceptable, when in reality all rapemances should STOP, yes Luke and Laura worked, congrats now stop redoing the formula it will not work.

Tarty 'haters' are in the majority, with their points justified above.

At the end of the day we need to just agree, to disagree and just hope the show will give us a reason to debate that we will all enjoy debating, vs. a storyline that is ruining the show for so many people.

Thank you Season!! ITA! I get why people are more infuriated w/ the Todd/Marty s/l, but yeah, hearing rationalizatons for the other rapemance couples makes me so uncomfortable. And for fear that I'm going to hear Jamey talk about "romantic subtex" in rape scenes and "rape fantasies" I think this will be a podcast I'll skip... It's just too much after awhile

Well you know what Daisy Clover, considering this is the biggest story in daytime right now, guess what, we are going to discuss it. I can totally respect that people don't see it the way I do, but if you go and say Google "rape fantasies" you will see it is a valid psychological discussion, which I wouldn't think is too reaching a topic to discuss on a show that deals with child molestation, rape and rampant Dissociative Identity Disorder. That's what we do hear is analyze storylines and obiviously ABC wants us to discuss it considering there all out promotional campaign to push the story.

Somehow I think I was still misunderstood. I never DEFENDED Luke & Laura.  I just feel that Laura made her bed and decided to lie in it the day she invited her rapist into her bed as her forgiven lover. It's still a rapemance in every sense of the word.

Now, with that said, I just think that Tarty went one step too far because Marty can't make an informed choice. Anyone who thinks that I defend L&L is wrong. They may be "Greatest Love story" of all time told on soaps, and one of my favorite couples, but it is still born of rape. There is now way to whitewash that regardless of the rewrites they have tried.

That the whole Marty issue was a "socially relevant" storyline just adds insult to injury.  I think that why the PSA was a good idea ..... although all rapes should have PSA'a attatched to them ...... or maybe no rapes at all.