DC #382: CBS and Days Honey Buns

RE: ATWT... I agree with everything you said about the Craig-Carly-Jack-Janet & kids storyline... and especially that Parker treats Carly the way he sees Jack treat her, which is not good.

As for Noah/Luke, I am tired of the plot points and the lack of organic storytelling too. I am not as tired of it as you all but it is wearying and I do know others who feel exactly as you do about the lack of quality writing and storylines for Noah/Luke. For me, it just seems like a waste the way Noah/Luke is written most of the time because TPTB have a lot going for them with this pairing but they continually screw up most of it. Any saving of the storylines is due to the actors giving it their best (except for the "murder mystery" storyline which no one could save ).

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Still waiting for your thoughts on Casey/Alison.

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Paul-Meg-Dusty + Lucy = still Vortex of Suck.

I just realized that today i didn't finish listening to the podcast because YR wasn't the last show to be commented on. It should be done like this always the time.

I actually watched a whole episode of GL again since boycotting it due to Olivia confided in her rapist about her sexuality. I'm not sure it was good timing however. I'm sure this was taped before Friday, so I expect someone to ask why Emma could take the stand at her father's trial. From what I can gather, it seemed like another gimmack in the fairy tale of Phillip as a superhero that fights for good and kills bad guys. Is that about right?

And Olivia drinking with Shayne and Edmund the same day came across as too coincidental.

Oh, and I'm not sure handsy Ellen is a good thing given that's who she has been for four or so years. And again with the timing thing-The camera shook on Lizzie's face on Friday.

Jamey, Noah is passionate about gay rights. Just because he isn't walking around Old Towne wrapped in a pride flag doesn't mean he isn't out & proud. Noah's quiet strength is one of the things I love most about him, but it seems like for some people their biggest problem with Noah is simply that he isn't just like Luke. And are you sincerely wondering why we aren't seeing the gay club scene? It's an American daytime soap, not QAF. Not that I'd object, but I don't think we'll be seeing Oakdale's version of Babylon.
Is the Nuke story line all it could be? God no, but it's miles better than it was during the Ameera debacle and the squikfest of Super-Creepster Grandpa Wheatly. And at least the writers, David A. Levinson in particular, are actually giving Noah something more to do than scrub the counters at Java. Jake Silbermann was great and more than held his own in that scene with Paolo Seganti.
Yes, there's still a lot to be frustrated with, but if you've been watching Luke and Noah these past weeks and haven't seen any improvement or taken anything good or hopeful from the direction of the story it doesn't surprise me, because I honestly think at this point that there are people who gripe about them just for the sake of it. *cough*Nelson Branco*cough*

I'm baffled by all this praise for Mick Hazen. Teens can be interesting, but Hazen's approach to the character makes him come off more like a bratty toddler than a moody, troubled teenager. Maura West, Michael Park & Julie Pinson are what make anything regarding Parker bearable for me. I love Meredith Hagner as well, and I think she has a lot of potential on the show, but not with this story & completely chemistry-free coupling.

Jon Lindstrom is amazing, but the almost daily Craig-a-palooza is too much.

About Luke's hit and run. I'm not so sure it was yet another homophobic attack. I think that's just a red herring. Next week Damian is stabbed (he enters Java all bloody and collapses in front of Noah). I think the two attacks are connected. I think Damian wanting to make amends with Luke isn't the only reason why he's back. I think he wants to protect Luke too.

I've really enjoyed this past week with Luke, Noah, Damian, Holden and Lily. There were some WTF moments, but overall I really enjoyed it. Noelle Beck was amazing in her scenes at WOAK and later with Damian. I saw sparks between her and Paolo where I don't always see them with her and Jon. Van was also really good in those scenes with Damian. He went from vulnerable to scared to angry to frustrated. And Jake was really good in that scene with Paolo.

Is it the best it could be? Of course not. But I've seen much worse (like Ameera and the recent murder mystery which wasn't really a mystery since everybody figured out Mark Vero was the killer even before we knew Reg was the victim). I think Noah being on Team Damian is interesting. And it's actually character driven. Luke has a chance to reconnect with his father, something he will never be able to do with his own father. Those looks Noah had during the WOAK interview when Luke and Lily were talking about parents disowning their kids for being gay were very telling. Van said something interesting about the way Jake plays it in SOW this week: Noah is willing to trust Damian because he wants to trust him.

Oh, and it was great to see Kathryn Hays (Kim) in non-Brad/Katie scenes. Luke and Noah were interns at her TV station for a whole summer and not once did they have scenes with Kim. This was the first time Noah and Kim were in a scene together.

About Parker/Liberty/Carly/Craig/Janet:

I'm enjoying the drama for the parents, but I could care less about Parker and Liberty. I really like Meredith Hagner, but not really during Parker/Liberty scenes. They don't have chemistry. My favorite Liberty scenes are the scenes with Janet. And Mick Hazen is an okay actor, but I don't think he's that great. I think he was better during the storyline when Carly just came back from being on the run with Simon and the storyline where Carly was going to "die". I would give anything if they would trade Parker for JJ. Loved that kid and I think Daniel Manche is the better actor between the two.

I like Jon Lindstrom, but he's on too much IMO. A little more balance please. I'd like to see more of the vets. I don't watch Y&R, but isn't Jeanne Cooper always in a frontburner storyline? Why did Lucinda disappear for two months after the Brian storyline was over? Why haven't we seen Susan since NOVEMBER? And Lisa... I understand some vets might not want to work all the time anymore, but Eileen Fulton said on her website that she would love to have a storyline again. Why not make her part of the Damian storyline? Come on, she was the first soapbitch in daytime!

jamey b&b is getting more and more like passions

girlcaledJo I gripe about the story, because I am tired of ethnic and/or gay storylines being treated as separate but not equal. Luke and Noah are this soap's most popular pairing, and they are written like second class citizens with one contrived, plot driven debacle after another. If you paid attention to what I said, I said the show SHOULD write it as "They Way We Were" , with Noah less interested in being a gay activist and Luke always for the cause, only making it character driven. Those seeds are already there. Who said anything about wanting Noah to be like Luke? The storyline is bad. It's BAD SOAP OPERA when a little over a month ago Luke and Noah are trying to fight a killer, now they are trying to fight a bigot land lord. It's textbook bad soap opera, episodic, asinine crap that isn't rooted in character or serialized storytelling whatsoever. I am sorry, just because they are a gay couple I am not going to simply be happy with what I given. I'm tired of separate-but-unequal storytelling. If people want to be happy about a 30 second love scene, over a year to kiss, etc. that's fine, but you can't tell me what to say or think. If you want full on praise for the soaps read the magazines. I keep it real.

I watched Friday's B&B. That's 20 minutes of my life I'm not getting back.

girlcaledJo, Oh and another thing, the whole "people just gripe to be griping" um, yeah, I don't paid for this okay? I do this out of a visceral and passionate LOVE for this industry. What I say about Luke and Noah is no doggone different than what I say about GH breaking up Liason, the black story on Y&R or anything else I find wrong and breaking the rules of what makes good soap opera. I give my opinion and mine alone. The P&G soaps have 18 months at the most to turn the ship around and they are telling these cockamie stories with the most popular couple in daytime. If you're looking for me to cut them some slack, I don't know what to tell you. When ATWT does what GL and Y&R and OLTL have done in fixing most of what was broken, I will praise them for that. I ripped GL and Y&R to shreds when it was bad, yet I praise them when they are good. I do me. 24 hours a day, just me, that's in the reference to the whole Nelson Branco dig. Nelson is my friend and we both write about soaps, but we have numerous different takes. If you read us both looking for what makes us unique as opposed to what you construe as making us the same, then you might find that. Might not make for as interestingly snarky a comment, but it would be a little less black or white. What Nelson and I most assuredly have in common is a love for this genre. Staying quiet and eating shit politely won't help keep these soaps on the air. 

Full on praise? Where have you ever seen that? That's something this couple has never gotten from a soap mag, or me. And if you paid attention to what I wrote I haven't given their lousy stories (Ameera, Brian, DeadReg) a pass just because they're gay. Reiterating what I said before, I think that pretty much nothing that could be done to redeem them in some people’s eyes as there is rarely acknowledgment of any improvements that have been made. That’s me ‘keeping’ it real’.

One more thing...even in these trying times for this industry, head writers are paid ONE MILLION DOLLARS a year. Sorry, never gonna cut Passanante slack for churning out driven and being paid a king's ransom for it. Not.Gonna.Happen.

Money problems? Radaronline is kind of bullshitting. Did you guys read the actual document?

Panache is a company, her company. It paid her part of her salery and kept the rest of it for other things (savings, pension fund and stuff). Then it pays her a certain amount of money every month, keeping the rest for savings. It's very smart actually (then again, Deidre is business savvy, we know this).

She actually made like 1,3 or something million a year.

I wouldn't wanna pay that guy alimony either if I were her. Let Mr big-time-investor-man pay his own way.

Who said anything about eating the s**t they give us or being content with that? I've made my displeasure known to TPTB about with what's been happening.
And where did I say anything about not giving opinions? Isn't that what we're doing here?

I think that pretty much nothing that could be done to redeem them in some people’s eyes as there is rarely acknowledgment of any improvements that have been made. That’s me ‘keeping’ it real’.
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Well, you can't be talking about me, because I am saying over and over again, what the show could do to redeem the couple in my eyes. This podcast was taped last week, before Damien even premiered. We hadn't seen any scenes with Noah or Damien. All we saw is Luke once again doing the Gay Hardy Boys Mystery Hour and getting hit by a car because of it. Forgive me if that didn't inspire comparisons to Slum Dog Millionaire.

Cut Passanante slack? HAHAHAHA! That woman is a scourge. I didn't even say anything remotely like that. She ruined my show.

I would love to love Nuke, but I am TIRED of the Villain-of-the-Week storytelling. These people don't have a clue about gay relationships. Hell, I dont think they have a clue about love and life period! The only thing they get right is Jack and Carly, and I give most of that to the actors. I was praising ATWT last year when everyone at DC and others were on a OLTL lovefest, that's why it's downward spiral creatively makes me angry now. I was begging people to watch, people who had written it off after Hogan left, and how do they repay me? By effing the show up again.

Jamey, I wanted to know what exactly bugs you about the Kevin storyline? You guys didn't get much time to talk about Y&R in depth (understandably so considering the GL event) so I just wanted to know. Personally, this story feels less like "Maria Bell" and more Sheffer-esque. What do you think?

But, everyone is tired of it! It's what fans have been complaining about since almost day one with these two. Cartoonish psycho dads and green card wives are not what I want either. Yes, they are running out of afflictions/injuries for Luke and yes the hit and run is Stoopid. But lately there have been rare moments here and there where we have seen Luke and Noah be more of a committed, adult couple. And no, it's not nearly enough. Maybe it's misguided and I'll have my hopes dashed all over again, but for the first time in a long time I'm feeling at least somewhat optimistic about where they're headed.

I so agree about Kevin's storyline. It's not interesting. I just don't buy in like 2 days because he was locked in a closet he would think hair model Clint was his daddy and stuff. It's boring.

Who said anything about wanting Noah to be like Luke?

Chiming in to say that I get what girlcalledJo is saying because I see that gripe pretty frequently though not as much recently. I don't think DC/the podcast was being tarred with this accusation but there are people who consistently bitch about Noah being "too boring" or "too staid" because he's not just like Luke. I like that they're different and Noah is more cautious to Luke's headstrong personality but there are some viewers who can't get into a calmer character like Noah and want someone with exactly Luke's personality to date Luke, which I actually don't care for. Can you imagine two Luke personalities together? THE HORROR. Whomever has been helping fluff out the character of Noah with decent writing and more than cleaning the tables at Java these past couple of months: THANK YOU!

But yes, the problem with Noah/Luke's storylines... for pretty much every ATWT storyline... is they're rarely about the characters so much as the plot points. With such an overall strong cast, it's terrible to watch the crap thrown at them when they could do more with better but TPTB don't have the inclination or desire to churn out better material.

And the breakneck speed of the storylines really needs to stop. Truly.

I'm gonna let y'all in on a little secret, that I guess doesn't come off on the podcast. I prefer Luke to Noah. LOL I like both actors, and since Luke is the legacy character he probably gets more attention, but the show messed that up by killing and/or making crazy Noah's family. I just hate how these soaps will use gay couples to generate buzz then they will be chicken shits about telling a decent romantic story. I am never expecting to see the day where Noah bends Luke over counter at Snyder Farm, but they could at least their story the same kind of attention they give Liberty and Parker. I haven't seen this week's shows yet, will watch a marathon tonight, as we tape the podcast tomorrow, but I am hoping Damien's return will help things along. I just hope he isn't back for more nonsense.

KidY&R, Greg Rikaart is one of the best actors on the show, and I am SOOOO happy he has a storyline, but that chipmunk mask business turned me off. It was ludicrous. Plus, we are in a recession, heading for a depression, I didn't want to see my funny, snarky, devilish Kevin being tormented AGAIN, while I am at home on my couch opening yet another past due notice from the electric company. LOL

Jamey, I like both Luke and Noah. I was just commenting that there are some people who don't like Noah simply because he isn't just like Luke. Me, I like the disparate personalities and the dynamics of their relationship.

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As for Damian, I am ready to forgive him his past screw-ups just because of how he says 'Luciano" and I am usually not a sucker for Italian accents on a man but PS is just so fabulous as Damian, that I am ready to buy what Damian's saying at face value (even though there is obviously more to his story about why he's back in Oakdale).

The only Luke storyline I like is the one involving Luke Kerr!

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. But regardless of whether you like it or not (although it may not be for everyone, it is a consistent, history driven story) what is really at stake is how they plan to reintegrate Kevin into the fabric of GC after all he has done. I wonder how they might go about doing that? Any guesses?

I think that the plot points for Nuke is soo bad that Passante and Goutman needs to be fired, ASAP. This show is a joke something needs to happen before the show is canceled.

I wish people got their facts and history right when analyzing my motives. I gave Jake and Van their first award — The Soap Opera Spirit Award for Best Performance by A Duo — and nominate Van every year. Along with placing Nuke in my top couple in NR more times than I should.

Also, I fell in love with Nuke right from the start. Back then, Nuke haters accused me of loving them just bec/ I was gay.

I hate the writing. And the P&G agenda.

I love the actors. And characters.

It's because I am a Nuke fan and respect them that I demand better. They deserve better, and so do I.

And the actors don't disagree with me, either. They may not be able to say it in the press, but trust me — they don't disagree with me privately.

COUGH. COUGH.

Damn Jay that was cold! I know it's your opinion, but I have to give Jennifer Garies a little more credit than that. To basically say that she's meant for Skinnamax, which she's probably done, is messed up lol. But to each owns I guess. I think she's a good actress.
I totally agree w/your storyline idea about Nuke. To me esp, last summer, Luke was that whinny boyfriend while Noah was trying to gather and come to terms w/everything happening in his life. Now if Passanante-sauce and Goutman and who ever else is dictating story played your storyline idea up it would be great for that storyline.
Mel I can't wait for your GL recap. Sounds like you had an amazing time!

Dreda Hall should be more like Mark Pinter... love that comment from Jamey.

Jennifer is a bad actress and I agree with Jamey that the actress comes off as fake and redundant. I would of cast a person who can be a sex pot, but also with vulnerable and grace. And while is all the women on B&B is so obsessed with men instead of being a career women. Brooke was chasing after Ridge, but she was a chemist and a president of a company. Taylor is a psychiatric and cancer specialist. Bridget is the only on with a career as a doctor before becoming a fashion designer. I want the show to show a whole range of independent women instead of being doormats that Brad is portraying them.