HomeTVThe Young and The RestlessThe Young and the Restless Promo Jillian Bowe June 22, 2009 46 Comments Its all about to hit the fan… 46 Responses josser June 22, 2009 Thanks for posting this. David8… brought up some good points about flaws in Y&R’s writing. In particular, David noted that a large number of cast members are sidelined and the story of Jill being broke makes no sense. Jill could lose her cash but what about all of her Jabot stock? Why would she sell that? Wouldn’t she have a 401k, pension, jewelery, etc.? Why would she take all of her assets, other than her share of the Chancellor mansion, and put them in a bank account outside the U.S.? The tax and legal implications would be enormous. If any D.C. staff has a chance to ask any Y&R folks about Jill’s financial crisis, I’d be interested in hearing a reply. Thanks again for all of the hard work you folks at D.C. put into this site. Log in to Reply Smitty June 22, 2009 Great clip!!! Just the fact that the LANE fans will be going crazy over this brings me joy…I know it’s wrong but oh well LOL! Josstheguy…i have partially read through everyone’s comments over the weekend about the state of Y&R. What people need to remember is that this is a soap opera. The stock ownership of Jabot has been a mess for awhile. Those who keep pointing out that Jill has the 20% are forgetting that when Katherine bought 51% of Jabot it brought all of the stockholders shares in half. Did David forget about that when that happened? Yes Jill losing all her money is a stretch but it’s a soap opera. Not real life. There are numerous things that are a stretch on soaps. It’s entertainment people. Some people have been dragging Y&R thru the mud with the comments about how bad it is but I have to respectfully disagree. Did any of you watch this show under LML? How long have you all been watching this show? Some even went as far as comparing it to Passions. Give me a flipping break. Listen I think Y&R is 90-95% on fire. There are some things that could be changed. Listen I want the African American storyline to improve to but that doesn’t mean I am going to say the show is not as good as passions since they aren’t really showing the african american characters. Listen good soap opera storytelling brings actors/actresses in and out of storylines. Sometimes you are frontburner then you go on backburner. For those who really thing Y&R is that bad then I say you must really hate daytime lol. Because Y&R is on fire! Remember people this is a soap opera and it’s fiction. Log in to Reply goyankees June 22, 2009 GOD I LOVE THIS SHOW! And Smitty ~ yep, gotta agree w/you too….. It’s a Soap, so flaws are bound to occur, but Y&R is simply the best one out there and (with the exception of Tyra – gag!) I hardly ever complain. And for those that do, I implore you to watch the wretched “All my Children” wiht Ryan’s bulging eyballs, or the Mess that has turned into “GH” for ONE WEEK… You’ll reclaim your love for Genoa City in a heartbeat!!!! Log in to Reply Scott Novick June 22, 2009 And another thing to add to what Smitty said re: Josstheguy’s comment — there’s an easy explanation for why Jill isn’t considering her intangible assets right now as sources of income, and they touched on this with Jeffrey and Gloria. Like the Bardwells, Jill doesn’t want anyone to know about her financial situation. Billy knows thanks to Jack, but Jill doesn’t want it to go any further. If she sells her Jabot stock or cashes in on/takes a loan against her 401K/pension, there’s going to be a paper trail buried somewhere in Jabot/Chancellor about it, and that would make people question why. Jill doesn’t want to chance someone, especially Katherine, getting wind of it. Things like jewelry are probably a bit easier to sell on the downlow, but maybe Jill, like Gloria with her diamonds, doesn’t want to cash that out too quickly. Sure it would be nice if the show clarified that, but with so many other stories to tell, I can see why they left it up to the viewers to figure out. Smitty, agree with what you said, especially the way this comes with the territory for the genre. You’re also right that the whole Jabot stock thing has been a mess under almost every head writing regime, and Newman’s not too much better. They could probably devote whole episodes to straightening it out, but it would put us to sleep in the process. Log in to Reply cmleidi June 22, 2009 Yes, you have to suspend your disbelief sometimes, but poor plotting is poor plotting. An idiot plot is still an idiot plot. Just because it’s YR does not make it any less true. I see little difference between LML’s reign and MAB’s. Both writers can’t write stories for the Amber/Jana gang. Both writers miss storyline beats (Jill’s financial situation is something LML would have fudged as well) and both writers rely too much on the idiot plot. The main difference is that the women are now more pathetic under MAB and Bell has refused to give MTS much to do (even before she left) since she took over. I don’t hate daytime, but I do hate overrated writing that only looks good because the other soaps are in such disarray. Log in to Reply siomonstuart2003 June 22, 2009 The last comment hit it on the head about poor plotting and I don’t know where the show is going and we use to know where the next phase of the s/l is, but the quad is still in the mist of again in the same thing again and I can’t watch it. This Adam thing is a mess and I get he wants to get revenge on Jack and Victor, but not Ashley. It doesn’t make any sense and the fans see it. The Scooby Doo mystery is very bad and it is not getting any better and the show should squash it, ASAP. There is no one to root for and their use to be a character or two to root for, not anymore. I am only liking Phyllis, Mary Jane and Chloe. That’s the only characters I like. And the AA characters, Neil and Devon are not even being giving a good s/l and Neil is a president of CI and we don’t see him being the boss or being a power player in GC. And then they say they can’t write for AA, but why don’t they hired an AA writer to write for the AA characters. Thats the problem I have with Y&R and I not the only one feeling like where the show is going and the ratings is falling faster than you know what. The thing to do is bring back Ed Scott as exec producer, Susan SM and Kay alden to write the show and get back to character driven s/ls that Y&R is known for. MAB can still be boss of the show. Log in to Reply Smitty June 22, 2009 I should have known that the debbie downers would come in with their responses lol. Since you all want to go there here we go I will go there because I will go to bat for MAB and Co. Now listen I have never said that everything was all fine and rosy at Y&R. There are some plots that I don’t like (The art mess with Daniel) but the reason why it doesn’t get to me is because it’s only a small portion of the show. It’s not on five days a week with it continually shoved down my throat. You people seem to be so up in arms with Jill losing her money. Oh it’s not realistic is what I keep hearing well how about tell that to the people who lost all their money in the Madoff scheme. I bet they wouldn’t have thought that would realistically have happened to them 10 years ago. I bet they all would have said hell no but now a lot of them are flat broke! And then with the Adam story. It’s not plot driven. This whole thing makes perfect sense. He is a son who grew up not knowing who is real father was, while his rick spoiled sibilings grew up with silver spoons in their mouths. His father took him under his wing and then turned on him quickly and then he was used and set up by his father’s archnemis to get back at his father. Adam is a character that is scorned. He is out for revenage and is willing to do whatever he can to pay people back for this. I know a lot of you aren’t used to good soap opera but the Adam character is being set up as a great villian. If you aren’t sure what some great villians are look up Roger Thorpe from Guiding Light. Now he did some very nasty things but he was a viable and interesting character because he was written so well. I believe Jamey said it on one of the podcasts that Adam reminds him of a poor man’s Roger Thorpe. You talking about a good villian. He was great. Adam has the potential to be wrecking havoc on Genoa City for years to come. And if one more person says they are writing him in a corner I want you to go pull out your history books and look up Phyliss Summers Romalotti Abbott Newman. Hell she mowed Paul and Christine down with her car, she “killed” her best friend Sasha Green, kidnapped Michael. Once again I say this is a soap opera. The characters are multifacted. I know a lot of you may not be used to good soap opera telling but MAB and Co. are doing overrall a fantastic job. I would give them an A minus if I was grading them. Y&R under LML was unrecognizable. She took a show and changed it completely. I’m not going to list the many things wrong she did because I have done that a couple of times on here before. Will Y&R be like the Y&R we grew to love under Bill Bell…probably not but it is damn sure close under MAB and Co. And if you go back over the years there have been many loose wholes in story. Yeah even the great Bill Bell had some loose holes in stories. I knowing shocking but it’s true. Now once again am I happy with the African American storyline on Y&R….absolutely not, but I will say I would rather them not have a storyline then seeing Neil and Tyra together or a Devon/Tyra/Neil triangle. Just my opinion but it is what it is. Sorry for the scatter brain but so much is going through my mind. I hate when people try to compare MAB and LML. It’s ridiculous and insane. Log in to Reply josser June 22, 2009 Wonder Lily! Did anyone notice that Lily was wearing a knock off of Wonder Woman’s costume? Lily’s skirt was blue, her belt was yellow, and her top was red. Comic geek. Log in to Reply cmleidi June 22, 2009 Smitty, it’s possible to disagree without being condescending and insulting. I’ll just assume that was not your intention. Every plot MAB is telling right now requires a character or more than one character to act like an idiot. That’s not good storytelling. I find a storyline much more satisfying when the characters are intelligent and behave as such. A dumbed down Victor is uninteresting to me. I understand MAB wants to undo Cane/Phillip, but the whole reason Nina wants the blood test (Phillip possibly having Huntington’s) is absurd. No military officer would allow anyone to continue in the military if there’s the possibility of Huntington’s. He would have been tested immediately or he would have been discharged. It’s the small details that differentiate a mediocre writer from a good/great writer. MAB could have come up with a much more plausible way for Nina to get the information. Phillip needing a kidney or blood or bone marrow would have worked just as well. Unless they only have Tricia Cast for a limited amount of time, what’s the rush? You then have the Sharon/Phyllis/Jack/Nicholas triangle which bores me. Nick changes his mind week to week and sleeps with whichever woman he chooses. Sharon has become a kleptomaniac whose baby has three possible fathers. Jack professes his love for Sharon and proceeds to have sex with Phyllis and Mary Jane. Why should I care what happens to these people? Where is the rooting value? A great love is not one where the participants cheat on each other over and over. It would have taken one or two lines of dialogue to clear up Jill’s situation. Like I said, it’s the small details that make a difference. I may be accused of being a Debbie Downer, but I want YR and every show to be the best show they can possibly be. I see so much potential on YR that is untapped. It’s infuriating. Log in to Reply siomonstuart2003 June 22, 2009 I am so sick of the quad that I don’t care about anyone of the four except Phyllis. Shick is ruined for a plot point to put them together without even dealing with the issues of why they wasn’t together in the first place and Sharon really hurt Jack and Nick couldn’t make up his mind and didn’t care who got hurt as long as him got what he wanted without making him look like the bad guy. There is no rooting value for that couple and I just don’t about them anymore. Log in to Reply Smitty June 22, 2009 Cmledi it isn’t my intention to be condescending but it’s hard not to come off that when you all are continually trying to insult some of our intelligence in regards to Y&R. 1. Victor being dumbed down? What are you talking about. Are you referring to the fact that he hasn’t realized that Adam is gaslighting Ashley? Well if that is the case then why would he miracluously know Adam is doing it. 2. Nina researching who “Philip” the 3rd is makes perfect sense. He is her husband and father of her child. If anyone would have been suspicious of Cane it makes perfect sense for Nina to be. I mean he literally landed in the right place at the right time. How does someone from Austria make there way to Genoa City, Wisconsin looking for there mother without any prior knowledge of who there parents are? (Ask LML about that one since we are concerned about plot points!) Did it ever cross your mind that Nina could be lying about her son having Huntington’s disease? Nina is trying to find out the truth about her husband and child father and I could see her using whatever excuse necessary to figure it out. 3. Nick/Sharon/Jack/Phyliss well I know many are tired of this merry go round but it’s funny how many are throwing stones at Sharon when Phyliss was in this same predicament when she was pregnant with Summer. Yeah she only had two potential baby daddy’s but it is what it is. I like the quad. They are all good actors and I am a die hard Shick fan. I have been a fan of Jack/Phyliss since there first marriage. That’s why I am entertained by that quad. In regards to the storytelling as a viewer you have to use some of your own intelligence. We can’t have the writers breaking down every single thing for the viewers. I’m sorry but I don’t want my soap dumbed down. As an intelligent viewer you have to be able to know certain things like we all know Nikki is a recovering alcoholic but we don’t have the writers mentioning this everytime there is a toast on the show. We just see that Nikki doesn’t have a glass of alcohol because we as the viewer know that she wouldn’t be drinking alcohol. You see you have to be smart enough to see these things. They can’t write out everything for you. I think the one thing we both have in common is that we want the best for Y&R. Besides that…well need I say more lol Log in to Reply seattlegirl June 22, 2009 Looks like another great week in GC. Can’t wait! A lot of people are mentioning Jill’s Jabot stock. Y&R this year has made it a point to show us that the economy is slowing down. Kevins concerns about the coffee shop and his need for money because he is sick of just getting by after paying bills. Jana telling Daniel his art isn’t selling because of the economy we are in. It is true the art industry is definitely feeling the pinch right now. Many small galleries are closing their door. If Jill’s stock is anything like the stock I own it is worth about nothing right now in this economy. I’ve seen some of my stock go from over $100 a share to less then $20. That is a drastic drop. Jill has too much pride to sell the one big asset she has…her half of the estate to Kay. Like the rest of us when the economy picks back up we will be seeing our stocks go back up as well. In the meantime Jill is in the same position as a lot of people in this country are in right now. I find her s/l plausible. Jill doesn’t want anyone to know she is broke so she is going to appear to be living the lifestyle while in the meantime taking a job to keep her afloat. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 You don’t suspend belief when you are supposed to mine the history of the show. One the biggest mistakes a soap makes is when it doesn’t mine its history. This Jill broke story is a plot point. It doesn’t work and is bad writing. Y&R deserves the Passions comparison. Dead babies in people’s body is Passion story telling. It is not Y&R, not even classic Y&R. Y&R is set itself up as being the most realistic soap out there daytime. For that reason alone it cannot go into these area’s. Its’ fans watch because they don’t have to see that mess played out on air. I been looking around the messages boards for Y&R shows 93% disapproval rating for the show at this point. Hell, Heffer, and Slammer need to be fired. They have taken what use to be a damn god show and turned into something unwatchable. The more and more I talk to people the more they say they either have stopped watching or only watch a day or two out of the week. This is not must see daytime anymore. People need to realize and I’ve been following daytime for years and know the way the great head writers of daytime knew how to tell a story. Agnes, Bill, Douglas, and Irma would have never produced this type of mess. I suggest people watch the interviews with Bill and Agnes via Youtube and they will tell you what good writing is. It should always stay true to character and mine its history. Y&R reached a 3.4 in the ratings. That ought to tell you something and it hasn’t had this many fans in an uproar since LML was there. As for African Americans Passions gets all the credit for allowing its African American characters to drive storyline for the course of its run. Brook Kerr, Tracey Ross, Rodney Van Johnson, Amelia Marshall, Marla Gibbs, Phillip Jeanmarie, Daphnee Duplaix Samuel, Charles Divins, and Cathy Jeneen Doe. Passions made sure its African American characters were front and center and important to show. Without them you were missing a large chunk of the plot. Tracey Ross drove storyline for her entire run as Eve. Amelia Marshall (Liz) drove storyline as a villain for her entire run on the show. Brook Kerr (Whitney) and Charles Divins (Chad) drove storyline. Cahty Jeneen Doe(Simone)drove storyline. Phillip Jeanmarie (Vincent) become the first black true psychopathic villain daytime. Rodney Van Johnson (TC) drove storyline. If anything Passions proved that African Africans could drive storylines that were usually only regulated to the white characters on soaps. And they did it to rave reviews. What Y&R is doing all around is a mess. Pure hell. It’s not just a little off. It’s a soap that has long since gone off it its meds and needs to be 51/50′d back to the way it use to be. Come on now!!! Come on!!! I remember when Jamey was like GH ain’t that bad…and then one day he saw what everyone else saw. Y&R is no longer the “best soap”. It is just “a soap.” Guiding Light is kicking its ass in storyline telling and staying true to form. Too bad this show has to end. GL has everything and is doing everything Y&R use to do. So kudos to GL. I give Y&R A D-. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 Jill was always type of character who would marry a man for money. I mean she blackmailed Jack so that she could keep the lifestyle she was use too. Take a look and remember. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhOoisLbDoo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbpNlxSJk_4 This what Jill would do when the chips were down. Log in to Reply Smitty June 22, 2009 David46208 once again I will say. It’s hard to take you serious when you compare Y&R to Passions. I’m sorry but there is no comparison. If I just wanted to see black people on screen without good story telling behind it I would watch House of Payne. I am sitting here laughing typing this because anyone that watched Passions and Y&R will tell you they are FAR APART FROM EACH OTHER. As an african american I understand your frustration with the Winters family, but I’m sorry I don’t want to see the Winters on everyday doing nothing. I want a good storyline. I want good writing for them. I hated Dru and Neil’s last storyline when they had Dru going crazy over Neil. It was stupid and out of character for her. (LML’s great writing!) I love VR and KSJ but that doesn’t mean I will take seeing them in anything. I’m sorry I didn’t like that storyline and it was stupid. I want a good story for them and I am not willing to settle for some stupid Passions like storyline for them. Y&R is better than that. As far as ratings I am just happy that Y&R is holding pretty much steady compared to last year each week. WE all know that all of Daytime’s ratings are declining. It’s been happening for years so your ratings argument isn’t even a point. Try again. Log in to Reply seattlegirl June 22, 2009 Yes I do remember Jill going after rich men…hello Phillip II and John Abbott. Who is to say MAB doesn’t plan to have her go get another rich man down the road? Maybe the governor won’t be just a one time appearance on the show. Just maybe Larry Warton will re-emerge to keep a bored politicians housewife company. Do you have MAB and Co. scripts for the next few months to see where she is headed? Who is to say Jill and Jack won’t team up down the road and end up back in bed together? Maybe Billy could actually walk in on them…imagine that. I am loving that I don’t know what is going to happen next. It has been a long time since I’ve been excited to see what is going to happen. Bringing Thom Bierdz back (Phillip III) was brilliant. I applaud MAB and team for keeping it so under wraps that spoiler lovers like myself were even surprised. You want to talk about history…I am thrilled MAB and team gave Jabot back to the Abbott family. Why in gods name LML ever killed off John Abbott is beyond me. Oh that’s right she killed him off because she didn’t think a man should be running a cosmetic company. Explains why women always had control of the company under her watch. After Jill going around calling people trailer trash thinking she is better then everyone I am glad she had a reality check. I think we are about to see a new and improved Jill and I can’t wait to see what is in store for her character. Jill is going back to her roots….that is how she started on the show…poor. Maybe just maybe this time around she won’t depend on a man to climb the ladder again. Wouldn’t it be something if she gets her money and power again and finds herself with a younger man using her for her money. Talk about Karma. MAB didn’t look past Jill’s history…she embraced it and is showing us who Jill was back then and making Jill reflect things in her life as they are taking away from her. Like everything in life we are given a second chance and I for one can’t wait to see what Jill does with hers. Log in to Reply akbad806 June 22, 2009 People, embrace Y&R for what it is. It’s good soap!! There are a few missteps, but we are all obviously entertained by what MAB is bringing to the stage. Opinions be damned, this is daytime drama at its best. Remember only weeks ago most of you were singing the praises of this current regime? I’m enjoying Y&R more now than I was back during the Katherine storyline a few months back. Mary Jane and Adam are viable antagonists that th soap hasn’t had in years, while the Cane/Nina/”Langley” story is knocking it out of the park every day. Did you hear the backgound music during Friday’s cliffhanger? Yes, Neil and his brood are on the backburner, but they had their time to shine when Karen found out about Neil and Tyra’s affair. Those were good scenes!! Notice that the Nick/Phyllis/Jack/Sharon quadrangle has been out of sight lately and no one complains. Everyone needs to get their heads out of their ass and enjoy Y&R right now because in ten years, it might not even be on the air anymore. Log in to Reply seattlegirl June 22, 2009 Great points Smitty. Also about the ratings while people might not be tuning in to watch the show live they are using VCR’s, Tivo’s, DVR’s which do not count in the ratings. Back when Bill Bell was writing for the show we didn’t have those technologies. Many people were home during the day raising their family (because you could make it on one income for your family). Things have changed most households have both people working and we have too many different ways to watch the show. I DVR the show everyday but half the time end up watching it on cbs website or fancast instead. Y&R is the 7th most watched show on-line (even beating out shows like Survivor). With that taking into account how can we say the ratings are really down…when they have over 11 million people viewing on-line? You are trying to compare apples to apples and really it is more like apples to oranges. While the past is great you also have to move forward and make the show relate to what is going on today. Ashley miscarried her baby…so there is no baby. She is having a hysterical pregnancy (which isn’t common but it does happen). The mind is a very interesting thing in what it can make you think vs. what is actually happening. These women that do have hysterical pregnancy make their body think they are having a baby so they feel the “baby” kick and even go through child birth only to give birth to a blood clot and such. There is reality in the situation because it does happen to people. Passions on the other hand is very unrealistic and I would be very afraid if some of things actually happened in the real world. Log in to Reply akbad806 June 22, 2009 David, we’ve been doing this dance for a while now and apparently you are passionate about how you feel just as I am. But Y&R’s AA characters, expect for Dru, have never been dynamic. The Winters have always been filler and that’s the fault of the writers. If I was in the driver’s seat at Y&R, this family would be on fire. I’d bring in Lynn Whitfield and James Avery as Neil’s parents, have them intergrated well into the canvas when it’s revealed that James Avery’s character owns a stake in NE due to a long ago deal with Victor and get back to the basics: corporate intrigue. I agreee that MAB is dragging her feet where AA characters are concerned, but she’s doing a way better job than LML. This soap is clicking on most cylinders and your continued negative attitude is unwarranted. Embrace the good instead of criticizing ad nauseaum. Also, comparing Passions to the crown jewel of daytime is ridiculous. Passions sucked and that’s why it’s off the air! Log in to Reply seattlegirl June 22, 2009 I would assume Kevin stopped working at Chancellor when his mom took over Jabot with the Abbotts. But Gloria didn’t last there very long so Kevin was out of a job and back to CL. Not all of Jill’s money was in an offshore bank account. Enough that she can’t live the lifestyle she was accustomed to. Overseas bank accounts don’t seem out of the norm with those with a lot of money. The IRS in real life go after the little guy and jail them for not paying taxes but the big guys get a slap on the wrist. Maybe Jill will end up being blackmailed herself and she can see how Bradley felt when she ratted him out so she wouldn’t be in trouble. I’m sure there is a lot more to this s/l then meets the eye. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 While the past is great you also have to move forward and make the show relate to what is going on today. Ashley miscarried her baby…so there is no baby. She is having a hysterical pregnancy (which isn’t common but it does happen). The mind is a very interesting thing in what it can make you think vs. what is actually happening. These women that do have hysterical pregnancy make their body think they are having a baby so they feel the “baby” kick and even go through child birth only to give birth to a blood clot and such. There is reality in the situation because it does happen to people. Passions on the other hand is very unrealistic and I would be very afraid if some of things actually happened in the real world. ———- My oldest sister is an MD. She watches Y&R and she also watched Passions. The moment the whole “dead baby in your body” came about. She called me to tell me that is as about as realistic as people coming back from the dead. She hasn’t watched Y&R since. My mother and father stopped watching. My other sister has turned it off. Granny found things to do during that hour now. Aunts who watch Y&R are now looking at other programming on cable. Friends who watch Y&R are only looking at the clips of Chloe and Mary Jane or Lily on the web. That way they don’t have to suffer through the rest of it. I’m in the process of trying to sell them on GL. Log in to Reply akbad806 June 22, 2009 GL has nothing on Y&R. Are you insane? Pudgy ass Reva is hammy as ever and this show has 2 AA actors who bore viewers to tears. Log in to Reply akbad806 June 22, 2009 Go on ahead, Josstheguy. Log in to Reply seattlegirl June 22, 2009 Well David I don’t know what kind of doctor your sister is but you might want to show your sister this…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-pregnancy It does exist but like I said it is not very common. Y&R isn’t the first show to use it. Given Ashleys past mental breakdowns it doesn’t seem too far fetched for her to think she is still pregnant when she is not. You like history so much so you should remember Ashley thinking a blanket was a baby. The mind can play many tricks on you. Glad that you are enjoying GL. Personally for me I can’t get past the bad production and the hand held cameras to even try to watch it. Don’t even get me started on the outside sets. When you are as unhappy as you seem with the way the show is going maybe you should just give it up for good. I think deep down there is things you like about the show or you wouldn’t be as passionate to follow it so closely as you do. Some people view things as the glass is half full and some view the glass as half empty. I hope that the writers can find a way to write for the Winters or introduce a new African American family to the canvas. Maybe they can actually hire a consultant to help with the s/l’s more there. When Dru left a big part of the Winters family left. She was the backbone of the family and no one has been able to step in and fill the void she left. It was VR’s choice to leave the show under LML’s reigns (can’t say I blame her one bit…because the writing for her was very out of character). I am American Indian and I have yet to see a daytime show embrace my culture. I enjoy Y&R for what it is even though I am not represented on tv. Same thing can go for Asians and Latinos. Besides crazy Isabella and now Rafe and Estella how have they been represented. We had Miquel who was seen as the Newmans hired help and brought out every now and then. Latino’s make up a big percentage of our population yet they are even more under represented then the African Americans on the show currently. Is any soap going to be perfect, no. Then again what show is? Log in to Reply Smitty June 22, 2009 I think it will still go over David46208′s head that there isn’t a dead baby LOL. Some just don’t get it. He clearly isn’t paying attention to the details of this story! LMAO! Log in to Reply siomonstuart2003 June 22, 2009 I don’t want AA to be fillers or be on two times a week, I want them to have front burners s/l. Why don’t we see Neil being an exec for CIs and being a power player with Devon as his assistant learning the ropes of business and stealing clients from jabot and Newman while everyone is so busy with there personal lives and the show can come back to the business part of Y&R that is missing lately. I am so over the quad and I am not liking a child being almost killed for entertainment. David, keep on calling Hell, Slammer and Heffer out on their spotty treatment of AA. I am still watching the soap because I don’t want it canceled, but I still being vocal about the lack of diversity on Y&R. Log in to Reply seattlegirl June 22, 2009 David…did you read the link I posted about hysterical pregnancy?? What part of miscarriage don’t you understand? When Ashley fell down the stairs she miscarried….notice all of the blood that Adam was cleaning up with the towels? That blood wasn’t coming from her head. There is NO baby anymore…the fetus is dead. Ashley is now having an hysterical pregnancy replacing the baby she was pregnant with. So now she is feeling the same symptoms she did when she was carrying her child. She is gaining weight, feeling the “baby” kick, etc. The reason Dr. Taylor told Adam it is up to him to stop it is because in a hysterical pregnancy it can go as far as delivering. It won’t be a baby she delivers but could be just a clot of blood. If Adam was to come clean now and tell Ashley or allow Dr. Taylor to that she lost the baby they would be able to get her the psychological treatment she will need. In her mind she is having a baby…but there is no fetus that is viable for her to have a baby. I don’t get what is so hard to understand with this. Log in to Reply siomonstuart2003 June 23, 2009 But Ashley has to have her belly ultrasound and check out by a doctor other than the doctor Adam’s blackmailing. So how is Adam going to get away with this when Ashley goes to the doctor and she finds out she isn’t pregnant, but miscarried? But I am liking Adam, but I glad that he and MJ are teaming up for revenge on Victor and Jack. Log in to Reply josser June 22, 2009 Smitty, I agree with you. Log in to Reply reggyreg June 22, 2009 Smitty, I agree with everything you said. We need to keep in mind that this is fiction. It is hard to write good story 365 days a year. Prime time writers have difficulty with keeping story lines fresh on their shows and most of the really good ones only last 6 to 7 years. Y&R has been on over 30 years! Please keep this in mind folks. Log in to Reply josser June 22, 2009 David, why do you persist in saying that Ashley is caring a dead baby. She miscarried. All of the blood on floor? The fetus was presumably there and cleaned up by Adam. Doctor Taylor explained that Ashley is experiencing a psychosomatic pregnancy. As for mining history, the whole P3 story is all about history. Tricia Cast is back! Hurray!!! As for all of the dead soap creators, at some point we have to let go. Some of us weren’t alive during the Irna days. She doesn’t mean anything to us. And Passions? It’s dead and buried. It was a horrible show. The writing was moronic. Most of the acting was crap. Watching the actors repeat the same lines day after to give recaps was awful. Yes, Passions did a good job of providing good stories for its African-American cast. But some of those stories were terrible. The Vincent mess represented the worst stereotypes of the tragic mulatto on contemporary television. You name the stereotype, Vincent provided: devious, twisted, lonely, murderous, hypersexual, etc. He represented all of the literary bigoted depictions of male and female mulattoes over the last 150 years! Moreover, the complaints that you level about lack of representation of African-Americans is more than applicable to other soaps. GH? GL? Days? OLTL (but that should be changing as they are now building up more black cast members)? ATWT? B&B? None of these shows does a good job representing a diverse society. Are there any shows with an Asian or Native American cast member? None! The show has issues but it’s definitely better than the rest. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 2 birds with with one stone.. Here’s the deal when you are African American and no soap is giving you time of day..bad writing and all you are happy to see yourself on air. That fact that any soap recognizes it’s African American fan base is good. If Passions was bad, the whole show was bad. It wasn’t the black storylines. And for anyone who watched it saying Passions played into any stereotypes with Vincent is a joke. Because the white characters were just as bad if not far worse than he was. So that ain’t gonna work. And anyone who watched Passions know that. Not for this show. Not for Passions. And what have we become “soap snobs”. When you are African American you don’t have the luxury of being so picky. We don’t have 8 shows to choose from that represent us well or at all. I don’t watch soaps that don’t represent me on air. I just tune them out. AMC might have bad writing but the Hubbard’s are enough to keep me supporting them. At least the have storylines. GL has upgraded 2 of its African American cast members (Remy and Christiana) to frontburner and connected them to so many plots. For that reason I can deal with bad acting of Karla the hair model. Even OLTL has got my eye on it. I’m waiting to see what they are going to do with the Gannon’s. I’ve talked at lengths about Days…I and watch when Abe and Lexie are on the screen. Shit I have the Best Days of Days in my book right here: http://bit.ly/WJvNc http://bit.ly/8KLe9 And I even take you back to GL’s good old days: http://bit.ly/LDY9o But you better care about the soap greats or else we wouldn’t have soaps on today. Log in to Reply josser June 22, 2009 Smitty, House of Payne! Perfect! I swear, Tyler Perry delivers Amos & Andy 2.0 for the 21st Century. _______ I’m sorry but Jill’s plight isn’t realistic. I’ve worked in business too long to know that an executive, a CEO of a major corporation, would not have some kind of pension, etc. No one at that level would put all of her money in an off shore bank. I give Y&R a lot of slack but this point is just ridiculous. BTW, when did Kevin quit Chancellor? Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 Yes, Neil and his brood are on the backburner, but they had their time to shine when Karen found out about Neil and Tyra’s affair. —– You mean two episodes a month is a “time to shine?” That has been the whole complaint is that the AA’s have been regulated two times a month when they use to play them 5 days a week. Even Nia Peeples talked about the lack of being able to drive storyline. As for the quad. No one complains because they been on air almost every day of the week for 9 months. We could use a little break. That argument ain’t gonna work. I guess Hell, Heffer, and Slammer said to the black actors: “You better get on out there and act…here is your two episodes a month…make the best of it!” Y’all grasping at straws. You’ll see. “Denial” is not a river in Egypt. Log in to Reply josser June 22, 2009 David46208, Soap snobs? Time out! You’re saying that you are not going to watch Y&R because the writing isn’t up to your liking. Why is it hard to believe that others couldn’t stand Passions because the writing sucked and the acting was terrible? Also, I don’t have a problem with a black character being dysfunctional. From the episodes that I watched, Liz was a good villain. Psycho but she wasn’t stereotypical. I do, however, have a problem with a show that is pushing a walking stereotype like Vincent. The guy/girl was every damn stereotype about mulattoes rolled into one. You want to cite Bill Bell and others, why can’t I cite the long bigoted history of depicting mulattoes as freaks, rapists, sluts, desperately confused,etc.? Log in to Reply josser June 22, 2009 David46208! There is no “dead baby” in Ashley’s uterus!! She miscarried the fetus. As for getting people to watch GL, it’s a good show but it’s over and done in a few months. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 But Y&R’s AA characters, expect for Dru, have never been dynamic. The Winters have always been filler and that’s the fault of the writers. ————— The Winters fillers? You don’t know the history then. Here they wouldn’t have all this history if they had just been fillers: Neil: http://www.soapcentral.com/yr/whoswho/neil.php Drucilla: http://www.soapcentral.com/yr/whoswho/drucilla.php Olivia: http://www.soapcentral.com/yr/whoswho/olivia.php Malcolm: http://www.soapcentral.com/yr/whoswho/malcolm.php Nathan Sr: http://www.soapcentral.com/yr/whoswho/nathan.php These are just the core AA characters. They have a long history of being frontbutner. And these video’s prove that they were on fire: Malcolm http://bit.ly/qAFKG Neil http://bit.ly/18Uz1 Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 I do, however, have a problem with a show that is pushing a walking stereotype like Vincent. The guy/girl was every damn stereotype about mulattoes rolled into one. You want to cite Bill Bell and others, why can’t I cite the long bigoted history of depicting mulattoes as freaks, rapists, sluts, desperately confused,etc.? ——– Nope this argument doesn’t work. It’s not the tragic maultto storyline. If the the Russell’s had been white they would have played out the storyline the same way. So Jim R. in no way was playing into any stereotypes. He was writing a soap and allowing actors to act. Your argument would only work if the black characters were the only bad guys on the soaps. So Again way off with Passions. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 It was VR’s choice to leave the show under LML’s reigns (can’t say I blame her one bit…because the writing for her was very out of character). —— wait a minute VR didn’t leave because the writing was bad. And she has had nothing but praise for LML for the simple fact that was able to have that much of an engaging and through storyline. It wasn’t the storyline that made her leave. It was a lot of other factors as to what went on backstage as far as discrimination goes that was her cause for pause. Log in to Reply josser June 22, 2009 david46208, There are stereotypes that are attributed to groups of people: Native Americans as savages and drunks; gays as devious, child rapists, and promiscuous; Italians as mobsters, etc., and mulattoes as every thing wrapped up into Vincent. Vincent was also not a Russell! Hello! He was a Crane! He was the biracial love child of Julian and Eve. Please research the “tragic mulatto” and read up on Birth of a Nation’s Silas Lynch. You say that you want to watch programs that depict African-Americans. Well, what if you were biracial and turned into Passions and the only biracial person on the show was depicted as every negative stereotype about people like you? The same could be said for someone who is intersex (hermaphrodite). Tell me this doesn’t describe Vincent: “”Mulattoes, Half-Breeds, and Hapas”: Multiracial Representation in the Movies by Greg Pak – MFA, Filmmaker, Editor, Asianamericanfilm.com For decades, white filmmakers have used multiracial characters to dramatize messages about race and racism. What follows are a few of the multiracial stereotypes filmmakers have used – and a few questions about how depictions of multiracial characters may develop in the future. Multiracial characters have often been depicted as “Wild Half-Castes,” sexually destructive antagonists explicitly or implicitly perceived as unable to control the instinctive urges of their non-white heritage. Examples include George Siegmann as the mulatto villain Silas Lynch in “Birth of a Nation” (1915), Lon Chaney as the “half-breed” predator Jerry Jo in “The Place Beyond the Wind” (1916), and Jennifer Jones as the “half-breed” temptress in “Duel in the Sun” (1946). “The Crow” (1994) elides mention of the ethnicity of its hero, Eric Draven, played by the Eurasian star Brandon Lee, but perpetuates the association of multiraciality with sexual aberration and violence through its murderous, incestuous half-sibling villains, played by the white actor Michael Wincott and the Chinese actress Bai Ling. Like their “full blood” counterparts (including “The Savage Black,” “The Wild Injun,” and “The Dragon Lady”) “Wild Half-Caste” characters have little room for multi-dimensional development, over-determined as they are by the symbolic use of ethnicity to represent uncontrollable appetite and violence.” Log in to Reply seattlegirl June 22, 2009 I never said that was why VR left. I said I didn’t blame her for leaving because I didn’t think the writing was good for her. Seeing Dru go crazy over Carmen, cutting up her clothes, sitting in a mental ward was very out of character for Dru. Dru is a very independent strong women and LML’s writing for her was anything but that. So let me ask you this…if the backstage stuff was so unbearable for VR then why is she telling everyone she is open to come back now that MAB is on board? I didn’t hear her say when LML was still in power that she wanted to come back. Besides the writing team changing and a change in E.P. everything else pretty much stayed the same as far as cast and crew. Personally if I felt wronged in a place of work and felt I was being discriminated against that would be the last place I would go back to. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 Again your argument only holds merit if the African American characters were the only ones doing crazy things on Passions. This is where your argument falls falls flat. Jim Reilly has a history with creating crazy whacked out characters on Passions and Days. In no way is what Jim did on passions even close to what is talked about in birth of a nation. I’ve read that booked and study the images of African Americans in TV for many, many, many years now. When you thought Jim Reilly couldn’t push the boundaries any further he found a way to do so. The entire run of Passions was one great big tragedy after another. *Gwen stabbed Theresa in the back (literally) more times then I can imagine. And Theresa had her share of stabbing Gwen as well. *Alistair raped Theresa, Liz (in the past), and even his former wife. *Jessica became a murderous prostitute. *Kay was doing spells and creating Hell (literally) for Charity. *Eve had been a drunk, a drug addict, and whore in her past. *Liz tried to rape Julian and even pushed Chad and Whitney together when it was said to be that they were siblings. *Beth not only kept a pregnant pregnant Sheridan locked in a basement she took her baby from her when it born. And that is just a few of things that happened. Do you see the trend here on Passions? So see this again is why your argument falls flat. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 For the fans and she is ready to come back. She is making the decision for her self that if y&R extends an offer willing to negotiate. And this was very much in character for Dru. You see every character has something about them that when they face a certain challenge or a certain issue they will act very differently than people would expect. That’s real life. I myself carry myself as someone who doesn’t hate anyone. But there have been a few people in life that brought out a side of me that anyone would say was unlike me. That they wouldn’t believe was me. But I have done it and acted out of my own character. So being powerless for the first time was Dru’s reasoning for her behavior. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 It was VR’s choice to leave the show under LML’s reigns (can’t say I blame her one bit…because the writing for her was very out of character). ——- okay here is the proof: “Later, Dr. Taylor explains to Adam that Ashley is having an “hysterical pregnancy” which can possibly progress all the way to delivery and its up to Adam to stop it.”–That’s a dead baby in your body. Log in to Reply david46208 June 22, 2009 David…did you read the link I posted about hysterical pregnancy?? —– Too bad I’m not watching but you will see when they say on Air that she is carrying a dead baby in her body. In fact I think they already did refer to it as such. Log in to Reply josser June 22, 2009 David, You need to face facts. A dead fetus is not within Ashley’s uterus. She miscarried. The quote you provided explains that. The fetus was ejected when she fell down those steps. You say that your sister is a doctor. As your sister if a woman carrying a dead fetus wouldn’t become very sick as the fetus decays within her body. Ashley is not sick. Log in to Reply Leave a Reply Cancel Reply You must be logged in to post a comment.