General Hospital: Perkie’s Observations


Sam orders Heather to give her the baby.  Heather coldly tells Sam "If she (Heather) can’t have him, no one can." Shockingly, Heathers throws herself and the baby off the roof. Jason lunges to save the baby from a terrible fate. Somehow, he manages to grab the baby and save him from harm. However, Heather isn't so lucky and hits the ground below.
 


On the hospital grounds, Liz helps the paramedics stabilize Heather.  Anna warns her not to die, because they have unfinished business.  Meanwhile, Tea tries everything to get away from Todd to go on the roof.  Anna tells them not to go up there, and informs Todd separately that she knows he had a role in the switch. She sternly warns him not to leave town.  Tea continues to insist on seeing her son. 
 
Sabrina tells Patrick there’s a crazy lady on the roof with a baby.  Steve explains to everyone it’s Heather. Dante runs in to tell Steve that Heather went over the roof, and he heads out.  Liz tries to stop him, but he is determined to help his mother.  Heather is taken into the hospital where Patrick and Sabrina work on her. 
 
Jason, Sam and the baby come down from the roof.  Britt offers to check the baby for any injuries.  John wants Anna to wait until everyone is settled to get official statements. Anna wishes to speak with Steve, but Liz angrily says Heather is crazy and there is no forgiving what she’s done. Liz doesn't see any need for Steve to be involved in the madness. Steve knows Heather is a crazy kidnapper, but she’s still his mother. 
 
John tells Sam and Jason the police will need their official statements.  Sam asserts Jason did nothing wrong and saved the baby.  John acknowledges that, saying they have the security footage to back up her claims. 
 
Tea sees the baby with everyone, and recognizes Sam as the woman who lost her baby that night.  She thanks the group for saving her son.  John says they need to talk, but Tea just wants her baby.  Tea tries to grab her baby, but Jason and Sam coldly turn her down. John and Todd hold Tea back, while JaSam head off to have the baby checked out. 
 
Patrick tells Steve that Heather is alive, but has internal bleeding and a damaged vertebra.  Steve reassures Heather that Patrick will do the surgery.  Heather apologizes for betraying his trust.  Liz takes Steven away.  He blames himself, but Liz says it’s not his fault. Heather manipulated him, and he should just let it go.
 
Anna asks Heather about her association with Todd.  In turn, Heather asks about her reunion with Robin. Anna calls Heather a liar and informs her that Robin wasn’t at the clinic.  Sabrina overhears, as Heather swears she saw Robin alive.  Anna warns Heather never to say Robin’s name again, because she’s tired of the lies and manipulations.  Anna assures Heather she’s going to make sure that Heather gets assigned to somewhere worse than Ferncliff. She vows Heather will never see the light of day or Steven again.  However, Anna is willing to offer Heather a deal, if she confesses Todd helped her with the switch. 
 
Steve apologizes to Dante for what his mother did to Olivia.  He’s upset that he signed the release papers and believed she was better.  Steven wonders if it’s better for everyone if Heather doesn’t survive the surgery.  Sabrina tells Patrick she thinks Robin is alive. 
 
Britt gives the baby a clean checkup, but wants to keep him overnight to be safe.  She offers to have his medical records from Llanview brought over to the hospital.  Liz hands Sam the baby and tells her she’s happy for her, which Sam appreciates.  Sam’s not sure how to feel about getting her son back, since this means Tea will lose him. Jason tells her to keep the baby safe and love him.
 
Liz looks troubled outside the hospital and Britt offers her an ear.  Liz mentions losing Jake and thinks it's unfair that one mother is having a reunion with her child, while the other is losing hm.
 
Tea tells the guys that while she’s sorry that Sam lost her child, she can’t borrow Tea’s.  She says the last three days have been terrifying for her and wants their help in bringing the baby to her.  John warns Todd that he’ll tell Tea the truth himself if Todd doesn't man up.  Todd finally informs Tea she’s not getting the baby back, because he is not hers.  Tea says she delivered the baby, but Todd says that baby isn’t this one. 
 
Todd says he’s sorry for everything he’s ever done to her, but the baby isn’t Victor. He breaks the news that Tea’s child is dead and this baby belongs to Sam.

90 Responses

  1. Avatar of Perkie
    Perkie

    Seriously, I love that baby!! Not only is he adorable, but he’s seemed so agreeable with everyone. The way he cuddled in on KeMo and then later with RH. What a little sweetie.

    Not sure if I should give kudos to Florencia Lozano or not. Part of me was impressed at the work she was putting, the fear, the confusion, the denial. But at the same time….STOP YELLING AT ME!!!

    Really Sabrina, should you be telling Patrick what you heard a crazy lady say?

    Loved Anna giving it to HEather.

    Loved Liz trying to protect Steve from his mother, and his own guilt.

    Now I want to see Alexis meet that gorgeous grandson.

  2. Avatar of rebalove7
    rebalove7

    I shed some happy tears today watching Sam hold her son. The baby is adorable. Loved everything about Jasam & baby morgan. I also thought it was nice that Elizabeth helped with the check up.

  3. Avatar of GHvetfan
    GHvetfan

    Was I supposed to laugh and bust a gut when Heather took the kid over the side of the roof? That was incredibly stupid and completely not plausible. He had one hand out. Did he grab the baby like it was a dog by the scruff of the neck through the blanket? So silly!

    I know people hate on Tea but I would scream at the lot of these people if my child was in the arms of a lunatic and nobody gave me a straight answer. My god, how can they drag it out and torture her that way? She has every right. She was an innocent victim. Also , when she said she was calling a real cop, I yelled at the TV that she should call Bo. Love and miss me some Bo freakin Buchanon. He would have told her straight and wouldn’t have left it to Manning.

    I was happy with the Webber siblings. Liz had Steve’s back.

    I loved Anna going after Heather. I loved how she wouldn’t let up.

    I think the weak links were Sam and Jason. I hate how we are supposed to believe Sam is this tough chick who can handle herself but there she is letting Jason save the day again. It is good to know this is almost over. Of course here comes McPain as the man who saves her when she gets tied to the tracks. Ugh!

    Not to be nitpicky but isn’t Tea the child’s legal parent? Shouldn’t the baby have been handed over to child protective services until a legal DNA test was run? One that wasn’t run for a mobster as a favor? And wasn’t manipulated? Poor Tea! I hope she stays and comes back with legal action simply because I would love to watch Tea any day.

  4. Avatar of alstonboy4315
    alstonboy4315

    Florencia Lozano might be a bit….um, over-the-top, but I enjoy her melodramatic tendencies. I love women on soaps who chew scenery in a GOOD way (Michelle Stafford, Kim Zimmer, Erika Slezak……….) One thing you can’t accuse her of is “phoning it in.”

    I’ll take her any day over the Amelia Heinouses of the world who sleepwalk through their scenes, making you want to check their pulses!!

  5. Avatar of J Bernard Jones
    J Bernard Jones

    Not to be nitpicky but isn’t Tea the child’s legal parent?

    No.

    Shouldn’t the baby have been handed over to child protective services until a legal DNA test was run?

    Possibly.

    One that wasn’t run for a mobster as a favor?

    Relevance?

    And wasn’t manipulated?

    Relevant, but…..all that would need to be done at this point would be to reconfirm the tests that John & Jason had done, not start from scratch as if this was all new information that had just come to light.

    Poor Tea! I hope she stays and comes back with legal action…

    Invasion of privacy maybe; having the DNA test done without her consent possibly and even that is iffy since the party with injury here would be Sam (whose supposed dead baby’s tissue samples were tested without her constent). Where Tea would come in would be that it was really her deceased child and she should have been informed at the time that others suspected Baby Balkan wasn’t hers, but what’s legally actionable in a civil case there other than emotional distress? The fraud (baby & DNA tampering) were by Heather (and Todd). The bottom line is that Tea has no legal standing in regard to Baby Balkan himself.

  6. Avatar of kintex
    kintex

    I give kudos to Florencia Lozano for her work in this plot driven drivel. The writing has sucked for Tea and she has done a great job with the material given to her.
    RC has been piling misery on Tea since August last year, at what point is Tea going to catch a break? First he made Todd Victor, then he killed him off, had him die in Tea’s arms, Tea mourned his death, found out her ex-husband killed her new husband, did not get any justice for his death, came to GH for a few weeks to give birth to a dead baby, got shipped off screen with Sam’s baby, was brought back because Burton is leaving, she goes through the terror of a missing child, no one tells her this is not her child, and then she is told to stay away when she tries to reunite with the child and watches in a state of confusion and pain as strangers walk away with her child. Was that even necessary? And it is not yet over since Tea still has a dead child to mourn. Looking at spoilers she doesn’t really do any mourning because she is leaving PC this week or the next. So I guess she has fulfilled her purpose. This story totally sucks for Tea fans because there was never anything in it for Tea except watching RC inflict more pain on the character.

  7. Avatar of GHvetfan
    GHvetfan

    I was just thinking about sibling relationships on this show . I always liked how Jason and AJ treated Emily but hated how they were pitted against one another. But I think my fave sibling relationship was Luke and Bobbie. They were always supportive of one another regardless of whether what they were into was legal or moral. I feel like these scenes with Liz and Steven show her as more supportive of him that he really has been of her. But I think it is positive step in the writing. Michael and Krissie are the only other recent siblings besides Krissie and Molly but I think their relationship as siblings isn’t really shown. I sometimes forget Sam is even related.

  8. Avatar of GHvetfan
    GHvetfan

    J Bernard – my point was that the authorities were just accepting that Sam was the mother without actually seeing the results. I feel like Tea’s rights and feelings were being seriously ignored because the plot is rushed by Jason’s departure. I would have liked to see her told prior to Heather being found. I would have liked to see her reunited with her baby and have her give him back to Sam. The way it played out stinks for her and her fans. I would have liked someone to stand up for her.

  9. Avatar of kintex
    kintex

    [quote=J Bernard Jones]

    Not to be nitpicky but isn’t Tea the child’s legal parent? No

    Tea’s name is on the child’s birth certificate so legally this is still her child irrespective of DNA. They would have to go through a legal process to change that. The court orders a DNA test, its proved the baby belongs to Sam and then its given to her. This is why you have some men legally required to pay child support for their non biological children.

  10. Avatar of tealita
    tealita

    Yes! Sam has her baby back! Whoo Hoo! Sam, Jason, and the baby look wonderful together. Speaking of babies, GH always gets great kids, and baby Dani is no exception. I loved how Sam’s baby leaned into her, and then turned around and gave Liz the stink-eye just as Liz said, “I’m so happy for you.” It happened right around the 43-44 minute mark. LOL!

  11. Avatar of sassysdreams
    sassysdreams

    tealita – :love:

    I LOVED the Jasam family reunion!!! That baby is adorable and the spitting image of SB! I loved how he turned into Sam’s neck and hugged her as if he knew instinctively that she was his real mom!!! They make a beautiful family! I’m just sad that it will be over so quickly. SB will be missed!

    I thought KeMo was MAGNIFICENT last week and today!!! Her nuanced performance took me through all of Sam’s emotions and she had me in tears today!!! Sam and baby Danny bonded immediately and the look of love on Jason’s face and shining from his eyes as he watched them was beautiful to see!! KeMo is a fabulous actress and a joy to watch!!! :love: :love:

    I totally enjoyed Anna questioning Heather!! Two more wonderful actresses!

    I thought all of RH’s scenes were flat today with her showing no real emotion and basically repeating her memorized lines. This actress just does not do anything for me! Steve’s scenes with her also felt flat to me.

    I hope that Tea goes back to Llanview tomorrow because I have had more than enough of the screaming, shrieking and wailing!! Talk about an over-the-top scene chewer!

    I can’t wait for Todd to be arrested and put in jail!

    I’m intrigued by the little chat that Patrick and Sabrina had. Hopefully this will move Robin’s story along!

  12. Avatar of curacaoman
    curacaoman

    Why is no one stating the obvious: that the baby is the spitting image of Jason?
    It would have been perfect for Liz to tell Brit how much the baby reminded her of Jake.
    Liz found out the truth about Aiden, because of Monica telling her how much he looked like Lucky, his “uncle”, instead of Nik, his “father”.
    This is what I would like to see happen. Liz finds that the baby looks more like his “uncle” Jason, than his “father” Franco. She is reminded of the Aiden situation and decides to run a paternity test (all the required DNA data is already at the hospital. Finding out the truth, she tells Jason that the baby is his!

  13. Avatar of stefanstavros
    stefanstavros

    [quote=GHvetfan]Was I supposed to laugh and bust a gut when Heather took the kid over the side of the roof? That was incredibly stupid and completely not plausible. He had one hand out. Did he grab the baby like it was a dog by the scruff of the neck through the blanket? So silly!

    HaHa! ITA! I had to replay that scene to truly see how reDONKulous it was! Come on now! We know it’s a soap but that was sooooo stupid. There’s no way Jason would’ve really been able to safely retrieve that baby based on how Heather was holding him close to her. And the one hand grab…LOLOL
    Sooooo glad SB will be gone soon! Every day I get more and more excited. Watching a GH free of “consti-Jason” is going to ROCK!

  14. Avatar of Yoryla
    Yoryla

    This episode was just pure FIRE!

    The thing I most love about this baby switch storyline is how it brought Téa and Sam into each other’s orbits. It really was painful to watch the boys NOT telling her that her baby had died, but waited until she saw him for her own eyes.

  15. Avatar of SZima
    SZima

    [quote=kintex]Tea’s name is on the child’s birth certificate so legally this is still her child irrespective of DNA. They would have to go through a legal process to change that. The court orders a DNA test, its proved the baby belongs to Sam and then its given to her…[/quote]

    This is all true, and how it SHOULD have been handled, but aside from the fact that SB/Jason is leaving, I could not take a prolonged storyline with Tea screaming, weeping and wailing for another few weeks. The sooner this part of the story is over the better. I feel for Tea, but I’m sick of Florencia’s over-acting.

  16. Avatar of js3557
    js3557

    I was just dropping in to lurk when I read a few posts that caught my eye. First, the baby is legally Tea’s until and unless a court changes that. Even when the DNA results prove that the baby is Sam’s, Tea can still sue for custody and would have a decent case (bonding for the first months and the fact that the bio-mom is planning on endangering the baby by living with a mobster…until Jason dies that is….are just a couple of points she can make). In the end, Sam probably wins, but it could take months if not years to sort out in real life. Probate court is notoriously slow.

    Second, did Heather really jump off the roof of that really tall hospital (as shown in the opening credits) and live? What bs.

  17. Avatar of Tris Drake
    Tris Drake

    Ellie should be fired in 3,2 ,1… No they can’t take the baby without a LEGAL DNA test. KeMo has played this as if Sam lost her phone,not a baby. Someone wake me on the 22 because I’m done with them John punked out on his friend Tea Hes letting Todd of all people tell the truth? Other than that,great eppy. I may hate Britt but she looks good with Dante. I also like her being Liz’s friend. Watch out Liz’s bbfs end up dead. I loved Liz protecting her dumb brother. Didn’t that fall kill Manny? Heather fell in bushes!stop Ron..HaHa. and shut up Sabrina! This show had enough nerd factor with Spin and Ellie. But maybe Patrick will get some air time.

  18. Avatar of luvinggh
    luvinggh

    Curacaoman… Sam did say when she was looking at the pic of baby Danny on the cell phone that the baby looked like Jason. She mentioned his blue eyes are like Jason’s I believe. But… I don’t believe she would take it anywhere.

  19. Avatar of soapbaby
    soapbaby

    As stated by previous posters, this s/l is rushed because of SB’s impending departure but I would like to have seen Tea handled with more respect and empathy in this story. Instead, Tea is being “handled” by people looking her in the face and not telling her the truth or being treated like a criminal when she only wants to have her child! She’s as much of a victim as Sam. I wish the story would play out the struggle of both of these women coping together instead of being “handled.” Both Sam and Tea languish as men decide when/how to tell them the truth. Argh.

    I watched Tea’s scenes twice to try to make a fair assessment and because I think Florencia Lozano is a very strong actress BUT I thought the falling to the floor twice was a bit OTT. Her histrionics was distracting at times but I felt the emotion which is more than I can say for many of the other performers. Plus, FL has done ALL of the emotional work in her scenes where the other actors stand around flatly. FL is clearly a “theatre” performer and comes off way too “big” for television. I have liked the character of Tea for many years and hate that she is used as a plot-point to prop lesser characters.

    At the other end of the spectrum was Rebecca Herbst’s lovely, understated performance as Liz grieving Jake and empathizing with both Sam and Tea. Sometimes less is more! I really enjoyed the scenes between Liz and Britt. It really made Britt likeable whereas she has been written as the one-note “bitch.” Sabrina (the nerdy nursing student) was WAY out of line telling Patrick, “Your wife is alive.” WTF?! So many things wrong with that…1.) she overheard the statement in a private conversation, 2.) she repeated the statement made by a psychopath and 3.) she showed no tact in delivering the news to Patrick.

  20. Avatar of JASAMMABBY
    JASAMMABBY

    So I didn’t watch OLTL so I don’t have my emotions regarding the characters as I would with my GHers- but I have to say I saw the instant chemistry with Tea, Todd and McBain.. Tea screaming usually bugs me- however her dialogue made up for it today. On that note Sam is not the villin in this- Todd and Heather are. If I was Sam I wouldn’t let go of that baby either. She has to be terrified.

    I liked Liz protecting Steve. Again I don’t really like Steve the character- but please keep him so Liz had family. I was looking at Brit- and they look alike. Why couldn’t they have cast her as Sarah W…

    Anna was so awesome going after Heather. Sabrina- run and tell Patrick!!

    My favorite part- JASAM and Baby.. Jason watching them- giving her the baby. I have heard some people say Jason has checked out and I have not thought so. Today was totally obvious he was in this story. He just could not stop staring at his wife and son with the softest look. Melted my heart!!

  21. Avatar of soapfan14
    soapfan14

    @TrisDrake I think Manny survived it but I’m not sure. I know he died at some point but between the brain tumor being hit by an oncoming train and falling off the GH roof I forget how. I know he survived the tumor and the train cuz i spent the next 2 months following yelling WTF at my TV every time he spoke. I know there was a shootout on the roof with Jason Lucky and Manny. Lucky got credit and a commendation for taking the shot but it was Jason who did it. I forget if the bullet killed him.

  22. Avatar of ANGELWENDY15
    ANGELWENDY15

    The baby is just So adorable! He actually looks like Jason. It’s obvious that Sam , Jason and baby will reunite, and then suddenly, something is suppose to happen on the PC docks, where may-be Jason is presumed dead? As much as over the last few years the Mob storyline, and everything Sonny and Jason got to be too much, I will miss Steve Burton. Everyone in the cast seems to love him.

    As for Tea, yes, she does go over-board at times with the screaming, but as a mother, and if I was in her situation, I would be screaming and crying too not knowing what is going on with my baby. Her and Roger Howarth just have a connection, you can see it, and I think when she plays off him it brings out all her emotions. It really is a sad story. Wonder if Heather will die, (will miss Robin M., she was fabulous in the Part), so there will be no proof Todd was involved.

  23. Avatar of TV Gord
    TV Gord

    I hate the idea of Heather dying, but it almost seems as though she’s being set up to be the victim of a murder mystery. Just about everyone has a motive to want her dead, and even Steve and Anna speculated on her death. It could make for a juicy mystery, but–again–I don’t want to see Heather die…unless they could bring in Robin Mattson as Janet Green from AMC. (They are virtually the same character.)

  24. Avatar of J Bernard Jones
    J Bernard Jones

    TVGord wrote

    I hate the idea of Heather dying, but it almost seems as though she’s being set up to be the victim of a murder mystery. Just about everyone has a motive to want her dead, and even Steve and Anna speculated on her death.

    Don’t forget Dante said it twice. I was like “Oh lawd, she don’ DIE!!” LOL

    It could make for a juicy mystery, but–again–I don’t want to see Heather die…unless they could bring in Robin Mattson as Janet Green from AMC. (They are virtually the same character.)

    I thought it was great that there was a nod to that after Heather swiped Baby Balkan and talking about where to go, she said she thought Pine Valley was lovely this time of year. LOL

  25. Avatar of J Bernard Jones
    J Bernard Jones

    GHVETFAN wrote:

    J Bernard – my point was that the authorities were just accepting that Sam was the mother without actually seeing the results. I feel like Tea’s rights and feelings were being seriously ignored because the plot is rushed by Jason’s departure.

    I agree with this to a certain extent. But it is what it is; my understanding is that Ron Carlivati said something about not writing it this way or having to change things because of Burton’s departure, yes? No?

    I would have liked to see her told prior to Heather being found.

    I agree with this and I think indicated as much.

    I would have liked to see her reunited with her baby and have her give him back to Sam.

    I would not have been opposed to this and it would have been satisfying and sweet, but from a dramatic standpoint I can also see why a lot of viewers would have been equally upset to see it play out that way given Tea’s history as a tenacious (borderline obsessive) fighter. There are a ton of ways that scenario could have played out, but — as you said — a lot of the specifics in how this is playing out so far has been necessitated by Steve Burton’s departure, which may (or may not) have forced the hand in the writing of a lot of these issues.

    The way it played out stinks for her and her fans. I would have liked someone to stand up for her.

    I am a huge Tea (and Florencia Lozano) fan, but I get why it’s playing out this way and, as rough as it is on OLTL/Tea fans, the fact is that the story has to be written to service GH, which is now the primary and sole soap.

    kintex wrote

    Tea’s name is on the child’s birth certificate so legally this is still her child irrespective of DNA.

    Legally, no. Tea’s name is on the birth certificate of a child she gave birth to, which is not Baby Balkan. Since Tea’s actual child is deceased, that is the only child to which Tea has legal standing.

    They would have to go through a legal process to change that. The court orders a DNA test, its proved the baby belongs to Sam and then its given to her.

    They would not be “changing” any legal status at this point (since Tea does not have any legal claim to the child), only confirming the results of previously unsanctioned (read: illegal) tests which reveal the actual truth.

    This is why you have some men legally required to pay child support for their non biological children.

    This is not relevant. What would be more relevant would be if this were a situation where if Baby Balkan was in some way legally (or illegally as it were) adopted by Tea (with her name being on the birth certificate), then all the pieces of the puzzle you cite would become into legal play and it would/could/should turn out to be a full custody battle (!) on the show. In fact and simply put, she was given a child which was not hers legally or otherwise.

    I am not in full disagreement with folks, but there are external factors at play that many here acknowledge (Burton’s departure, forcing changes/speeding up of the storyline) and internal factors that are being clouded up in the discussion (Tea really has zero legal standing in regard to custody of Baby Balkan, legality of the current DNA tests not withstanding). Plus, as of yesterday (as I am spoiler free), I don’t know how this will play out with Tea given she only got the news in the last act of yesterday’s episode. LOL

    So, forward…

  26. Avatar of tml
    tml

    Sooooo disappointed that NONE of you pointed out Sam’s complete idiot lines to Tea in the hospital about “stay away” and “keep away from my baby” blah blah blah. Sam KNEW this would be hard on Tea, she SAID so in many previous scenes, but now all of sudden she wants to make Tea seem like she STOLE her baby??? C’MON!!!!!

    And for those of you criticizing Florencia…girlfriend is OWNING these scenes…screaming or not, on the floor or no. She is GREAT!!!!!

  27. Avatar of tml
    tml

    Ohhhh, and not to mention, the whole time on the roof, Sam is trying to get past Jason to get to the baby. And then, when she can get to the baby, she doesn’t go racing to grab him, she stands there dumbfounded…REALLY?

  28. Avatar of Perkie
    Perkie

    I think I need for this to play out that deep down inside, Tea knew this wasn’t her child especially once he was diagnosed with a hereditary condition that neither her nor the baby’s father had.

    No way would I allow someone else to have my child once he was returned from the crazy lady, so having Tea allow Sam to walk off with him, even though she was fighting with John and Todd just doesn’t feel right to me, in a maternal instinct sort of way. I would have been gouging people’s eyes out as I ran and ripped MY child out of someone else’s arms. But again, that’s just me!!

    I also wasn’t happy with Sam’s behaviour towards Tea. When Tea wasn’t there, Sam was all, “oh I feel bad for her losing her child”, but when confronted by Tea, Sam said something like, “stay away from him” or “don’t come closer to him”. While part of me wants to fanwank it that she was ticked no one had told Tea the truth yet, which would be distressing, the other part of me is angry that she didn’t reach out to Tea, considering Tea still thought the baby was hers.

  29. Avatar of TV Gord
    TV Gord

    They’re just heightening the drama so that when Sam and Téa do have their touching moment when Téa gets to say goodbye, it will be that much more heartwarming (or that’s their reasoning, anyway, I think).

  30. Avatar of soapbaby
    soapbaby

    ^^ I agree Perkie. I was displeased with Sam’s treatment of Tea considering the situation. I don’t blame Sam for wanting to hold on to her baby but her attitude toward Tea came off harsh, cruel even. When watching I was reminded of Sam’s behavior toward Patrick after Robin just died. Sam’s lack of empathy toward others’ grief is rather astounding

    Everyone’s been horrible to Tea, compounding a horrible situation.

  31. Avatar of tml
    tml

    EXACTLY!!!

    For those OLTL fans, remember just last year or shortly before the whole underground parking garage scenes when Eli had Dani and Tea was screaming and running, chasing after the car? GREAT STUFF!!!! Scream all you want, girl, at least no one can accuse you of phoning it in.

  32. Avatar of kintex
    kintex

    @Jbernard. Tea has legal rights to this child. It doesn’t matter if this isn’t her biological child. Once children are born there is an official recording of the child’s birth. The parents of the child including name given by the parent is officially recorded and a certificate is given. If your name is on the birth certificate you are the legal parent irrespective of the DNA and you have legal rights and duties.
    The dead child was registered as Sam’s baby and she is still the legal mother of the dead child. Imagine if a couple of weeks ago John had told Tea without Sam’s knowledge that the dead baby belonged to her and Tea wanted to exhume it. Without Sam’s consent, Tea would have no legal right to request the caretaker to exhume the body, because legally she is nothing to this child while Sam could have exhumed that body anytime without seeking anyone’s consent because she is the legal parent. There is a change in a legal status because they would have to change the child’s birth certificate and in effect strip Tea of any parental rights and duties.

    My example is relevant because it is another situation where someone is a legal parent to a non-biological child they did not adopt. In both cases the parties assume that these are their biological children and they have parental rigts and duties. For these parties to get their parental rights taken away and avoid later issues of child custody or support, a process is followed by the court and so the child’s legal status changes. They get a new birth certificate and the former parents are not legally liable for this child anymore.

  33. Avatar of mackenzie2184
    mackenzie2184

    [quote=kintex]@Jbernard. Tea has legal rights to this child. It doesn’t matter if this isn’t her biological child. Once children are born there is an official recording of the child’s birth. The parents of the child including name given by the parent is officially recorded and a certificate is given. If your name is on the birth certificate you are the legal parent irrespective of the DNA and you have legal rights and duties.
    The dead child was registered as Sam’s baby and she is still the legal mother of the dead child. Imagine if a couple of weeks ago John had told Tea without Sam’s knowledge that the dead baby belonged to her and Tea wanted to exhume it. Without Sam’s consent, Tea would have no legal right to request the caretaker to exhume the body, because legally she is nothing to this child while Sam could have exhumed that body anytime without seeking anyone’s consent because she is the legal parent. There is a change in a legal status because they would have to change the child’s birth certificate and in effect strip Tea of any parental rights and duties.

    My example is relevant because it is another situation where someone is a legal parent to a non-biological child they did not adopt. In both cases the parties assume that these are their biological children and they have parental rigts and duties. For these parties to get their parental rights taken away and avoid later issues of child custody or support, a process is followed by the court and so the child’s legal status changes. They get a new birth certificate and the former parents are not legally liable for this child anymore.[/quote]

  34. Avatar of blackjack21
    blackjack21

    perkie – i’m with you on tea knowing in her heart this wasn’t her child. she stopped calling him by his name as soon as she saw him with sam. you could see the realization in her eyes and body language. as i told my kids, if i really thought that was my kid, i wouldn’t let some skinny guy in a leather coat keep me from him! lol

    conversely, i disagree with the criticisms of sam telling tea to please stay away. i believe sam said this before knowing tea was still in the dark and asking someone to tell tea what was going on. so from sam’s perspective, tea already knew and still wanted the baby back.

    as viewers we know tea hadn’t been told the truth, but sam didn’t. so being protective makes complete sense to me. i didn’t think jason and sam were cold at all. they didn’t yell at tea, they didn’t curse at her, they asked her good friend john to explain what was going on and then they tended to the baby – exactly what tea would’ve done if the roles were reversed.

  35. Avatar of mackenzie2184
    mackenzie2184

    [quote=kintex] @Jbernard. Tea has legal rights to this child. It doesn’t matter if this isn’t her biological child. Once children are born there is an official recording of the child’s birth. The parents of the child including name given by the parent is officially recorded and a certificate is given. If your name is on the birth certificate you are the legal parent irrespective of the DNA and you have legal rights and duties.
    The dead child was registered as Sam’s baby and she is still the legal mother of the dead child. Imagine if a couple of weeks ago John had told Tea without Sam’s knowledge that the dead baby belonged to her and Tea wanted to exhume it. Without Sam’s consent, Tea would have no legal right to request the caretaker to exhume the body, because legally she is nothing to this child while Sam could have exhumed that body anytime without seeking anyone’s consent because she is the legal parent. There is a change in a legal status because they would have to change the child’s birth certificate and in effect strip Tea of any parental rights and duties. [/quote]

    [quote=kintex] My example is relevant because it is another situation where someone is a legal parent to a non-biological child they did not adopt. In both cases the parties assume that these are their biological children and they have parental rigts and duties. For these parties to get their parental rights taken away and avoid later issues of child custody or support, a process is followed by the court and so the child’s legal status changes. They get a new birth certificate and the former parents are not legally liable for this child anymore.[/quote]

    I agree with your comment. I stopped watching the show, but your comment made sense. Tea is still legally the mother of Sam’s child and Sam is legally still the mother of Tea’s dead child.

  36. Avatar of Perkie
    Perkie

    Blackjack, I disagree. Tea wasn’t talking or behaving as though she knew the truth and both John and Todd looked guilty. I think it was clear to Sam and Jason that she didn’t know the truth, Jason even said something to John along the lines of “he should have taken care of it already”.

    Plus, it would have been more humanizing to allow Tea to hold the baby even if she knew the truth, to give her some closure. It’s not like she was going to run off with the baby, there were tons of people standing right there.

    I don’t know Tea, since I didn’t watch OLTL, but I feel like they’re ripping this child out of her arms and letting her suffer unecessarily and it’s not painting JaSam, John or Todd in a good light.

  37. Avatar of JASAMMABBY
    JASAMMABBY

    I think Sam didn’t let her hold him because she was scared she would run.. I just don’t think she was mean to her- I think it was clear to her Tea didn’t know and she can’t take the chance she will bolt. It’s hardly Sams fault that Tea’s dumb friends wouldn’t spit it out. Everytime McBain said tell her man or I will was making me more and more angry. I look forward to when Sam knows Tea knows and she can let her say goodbye and thank her.

    I will also agree that I realized the moment that Tea realized it was true. I think it was when Todd was holding her. Her body language totally changed..

    I also don’t fault Sam for not letting go. If I got my baby back you would have to wrestle me to get him out of my hands. However I do think the scene could have played different if say the baby was crying for Tea or reaching out for her.

  38. Avatar of js3557
    js3557

    J Bernard Jones….I am a lawyer and kintex is correct. The birth certificate is a legal document that attaches to a specific child. The birth certificate in question attached to Victor because he was the child produced at the hospital as Tea’s child. The doctor on duty filled it out and Tea signed it (normal procedure). So that certificate goes with Victor, not the dead child. The court has to legally amend the child’s birth certificate after a court ordered DNA test.

    I heard that on yesterday’s show Liz said to Sam that she assumed Sam wanted her to write up a new birth certificate. That is also legally inaccurate. The new birth certificate would be drawn up by the clerk’s office at the city hall upon receipt of a written court order. The hospital isn’t allowed to amend birth certificates once they are filed with city/town.

  39. Avatar of sassysdreams
    sassysdreams

    Baby Danny was KIDNAPPED!!! Something many of you seem to have forgotten!!! WE know the true circumstances of that kidnapping but the people of Port Charles do not yet know ALL the facts!!! Tea was still grieving the recent death of her husband and his baby was her lifeline. There is no proof YET that she wasn’t an integral part of switching her dead baby with Sam’s live baby as a way to hold on to something living. There have been several cases in the news recently of pregnant women who have miscarried or delivered stillborn children, kidnapping another baby and even killing the mother to do it, so that could have also been a possibility in this case.

    Tea is an intelligent woman but she was desperate to hang on to Victor’s child. The baby had a genetic disease that no one on her side of the family or her husband’s side of the family had nor did any of their children have. And he didn’t have the genetic disease that she carries and had been warned might be passed down to her son. I truly believe she was so desperate to have Victor’s child that she didn’t listen to what her instincts were telling her, that this baby was not her son.

    Until ALL the facts are known Tea would also be considered a kidnapper and neither the police nor the courts would allow her to take that child home with her while a protracted court battle ensues. She would be lucky not to be arrested right along with Todd!

    A birth certificate issued during the commission of a crime, and yes KIDNAPPING is a crime, is not considered to be a legal document and would not prevent the child from being returned to its parents. Illegal or not, there was a DNA test performed and it proved that the baby was Sam’s and not Tea’s. The PCPD has returned a KIDNAPPED child to its biological mother and just because you hate Sam doesn’t change the FACTS of what happened!!!

    That John McBain and Todd Manning allowed Tea to continue to suffer in agony for hours (not days) is reprehensible and hopefully Todd will be duly punished for his actions!

    But that is NOT Sam’s fault!!! Sam suffered in agony for weeks and months thinking her baby had died and that she had somehow done something to cause it. So I don’t blame her for even a second that she didn’t want a hysterical woman and possible kidnapper grabbing her son out of her arms for a second time, whether Tea had been told the truth or not! The woman was highly emotional and Sam had no way to know what she would do with Danny if she got her hands on him, especially after having just dealt with another hysterical woman on the roof of that hospital!!

    After all, she had just had her KIDNAPPED son returned to her after FOUR MONTHS MISSING!!!!! Feeling protective and not wanting to let him out of her arms was not only natural but the most loving thing she could have done at that moment!!! It wasn’t up to Sam to protect the feelings of the woman who had kept her son away from her for all this time!!! Tea’s friends should have done that and because they failed to do it doesn’t make it Sam’s fault!!!

    Once Tea has been told the truth and calmed down, I am sure that Sam will be gracious and generous and allow Tea to say a proper goodbye to Danny. I am also sure she will thank her for caring for him so well these past four months. These two women were BOTH victims and I don’t fault either one of them for reacting in the way that they did!!

  40. Avatar of js3557
    js3557

    sassy – my legal argument has absolutely nothing to do with my dislike of Sam. The law is the law, no matter which fictional character you vehemently support on a soap opera. Tea would not have been considered a kidnapper because there is no evidence supporting that theory. In fact, it hasn’t even been proven legally that Victor is Sam’s child and that he was switched with Tea’s dead child. It is all conjecture and hearsay at this point. What would happen in real life is that the baby would be returned to Tea and a Department of Family Services worker would be assigned. Sam would have to file for custody and change of the birth certificate in probate court. Then a judge would order a dna test. After the dna test showed that the baby was biologically Sam’s the birth certificate would be amended, but custody would still have to be determined. Tea would still have a claim, albeit a weak one, so there would be a hearing to determine custody. This would all take, at a minimum, months. And I am not saying that your opinion about some character or scene is wrong. I am saying that you are wrong about this legal issue.
    This is nothing like a case in which a deranged woman slices open a pregnant woman’s stomach and steals her baby. In such a scenario, the police would know immediately that a kidnapping had taken place and that the woman with the baby had done the kidnapping. Even then, a dna test would have to be done to confirm that it is the right baby before placing the child into the custody of the bio-family.

    I speak from a legal background on this issue, not from my point of view as a soap viewer. I am not saying that Sam shouldn’t get her baby back, I’m just saying that the show f’d up the legalities and procedure of it all. No shock there, though. So save your caps and bold, which is screaming at someone online – FYI, for a time when you are actually correct.

  41. Avatar of JASAMMABBY
    JASAMMABBY

    First saying she could sue for custody only says to me Sam is right to hold on tight to her baby. Secondly Sams baby isn’t a part of Victor. Tea lost her baby a long time ago and she should be pissed at Todd for never giving her the chance to see his face or know what he looks like. Tea and Sam are the victims. Sam’s baby was kidnapped- just cause Tea ended up with him doesn’t give her any right to him..

  42. Avatar of DanielAvery
    DanielAvery

    I found it rather odd that Liz and that new doctor-lady had their friendly conversation right where Heather had just fallen. One would expect such an area to be roped off with crime scene tape, swarming with investigators. Instead, Liz just glances at the flower bed, picks up some piece of potential evidence and tosses it aside, then sits down to chit-chat with new doctor-lady, when Heather had been lying face down in the flowers only half an hour so so before (dirt nap, indeed).

    This way RC has of dragging out a reveal is excrutiating. Tea demanding the truth for the whole hour got ridiculous after a while.

  43. Avatar of sassysdreams
    sassysdreams

    js3557 – I’m sure you won’t be surprised when I say that I disagree with your legal “opinion”. As I don’t know you in real life, I only have your word that you’re a practicing attorney. As a rule I don’t tend to believe what online posters on any web site say about themselves without any proof whatsoever, so you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t automatically accept everything you’re saying about the law to be factual or correct. And when I intentionally use all caps or bold I know exactly what I am doing and what it means but thank you for recognizing that. :)

  44. Avatar of J Bernard Jones
    J Bernard Jones

    Kintex wrote

    @Jbernard. Tea has legal rights to this child. It doesn’t matter if this isn’t her biological child. Once children are born there is an official recording of the child’s birth. The parents of the child including name given by the parent is officially recorded and a certificate is given. If your name is on the birth certificate you are the legal parent irrespective of the DNA and you have legal rights and duties….he dead child was registered as Sam’s baby and she is still the legal mother of the dead child. Imagine if a couple of weeks ago John had told Tea without Sam’s knowledge that the dead baby belonged to her and Tea wanted to exhume it. Without Sam’s consent, Tea would have no legal right to request the caretaker to exhume the body, because legally she is nothing to this child while Sam could have exhumed that body anytime without seeking anyone’s consent because she is the legal parent. There is a change in a legal status because they would have to change the child’s birth certificate and in effect strip Tea of any parental rights and duties….My example is relevant because it is another situation where someone is a legal parent to a non-biological child they did not adopt. In both cases the parties assume that these are their biological children and they have parental rigts and duties. For these parties to get their parental rights taken away and avoid later issues of child custody or support, a process is followed by the court and so the child’s legal status changes. They get a new birth certificate and the former parents are not legally liable for this child anymore.

    js3557 wrote

    J Bernard Jones….I am a lawyer and kintex is correct. The birth certificate is a legal document that attaches to a specific child. The birth certificate in question attached to Victor because he was the child produced at the hospital as Tea’s child. The doctor on duty filled it out and Tea signed it (normal procedure). So that certificate goes with Victor, not the dead child. The court has to legally amend the child’s birth certificate after a court ordered DNA test.

    (DISCLAIMER: I have not seen today’s episode and have no idea if this issue was brought up in today’s show. I won’t be able to watch it until 11:30PM, and my response is based solely on the arguments put forth in this thread so far re: Tea’s rights…)

    Actually, you are both wrong. Sorry, but that’s the way it is. I’m no lawyer (as I nod respectfully to js3557), but I’m a pretty decent researcher when I put my mind to it and — because I was absolutely curious about this issue — I asked my own attorney about it this afternoon (she being a former GH fan herself and after we’d concluded some other business). I also called my own adoption attorney, to pose the question to him (he not being a GH fan to my knowledge…LOL). I did not tell either attorney the basis upon which I argued the issue here but I did include questions about the status of the birth certificate confers upon the parent entrusted with the child’s care, wittingly or unwittingly. Both of these attorneys answers were the exactly same, and corroborated what I was able to look up in several real life “switched at birth” cases:

    Tea has zero legal rights to Baby Balkan aka Danny.
    None. Nada. Zip.

    Any court in the country would immediately award/transfer of the child to Sam, regardless of how long Tea had or raised Danny as Victor.

    Your birth certificate argument is not a bad argument on its surface but it is legally unsound and incorrect in being used as a foundation to confer any rights of parenthood to Tea. The argument is based on a “possession is 9/10ths of the law” theory that does not and would not apply here. It is true there was a de facto assumption that Tea was Danny’s mother at the time of birth and therefore was the putative parent. However, once the facts were/are determined to be valid (switched babies), the biological parent/s would be granted immediate custody of the child barring any objections to the fitness of the biological parent/s ability to care for the child.

    The argument that the birth certificate is “a legal document that attaches to a specific child” is technically true, but — again and barring any outright fraud by one of the parents in question — it is foundational on the assumption by the people with possession of the child/children in question is/are biologically (or via adoption) theirs to begin with.

    Again — once the mistake (by GH for not catching the discrepancy) and/or fraud by third parties (Heather & Todd, including possibly Johnny as someone with full knowledge of the events and thus making him an accessory) is discovered then all legal rights and guardianship automatically revert from the putative parent (Tea) to the biological parent/s (here being Sam, who as far as anyone outside of Heather knows is the only surviving parent).

    In arguing around these issues, here are in essence what’s at question:

    Would Tea have ANY custodial rights to Danny at this point?
    No. Maybe Sam wouldn’t either in in real life, but Tea certainly does not.

    Does Tea have ANY grounds to challenge said custody of Danny and/or previous DNA tests?
    Yes — but (in a nod to JS3557) a court would have DNA tests run to confirm maternity. However, the court would only have to determine the maternity of Danny vis a vis Tea & Sam, not Tea’s dead child Victor,which is a separate matter altogether. (I know, I know: deceased Victor was the child switched with Danny, wouldn’t his maternity come into question to? The short answer: not really, since the welfare of Danny as the living child would be paramount in the court’s purview.)

    So, if Tea has the right to challenge, wouldn’t Tea be granted at least temporary custody and/or would Victor, Jr. be placed in child protective services?
    Not necessarily. If there was a question regarding maternity, neither Sam nor Tea likely would have Danny during such a period in real life, so Tea would not have the right to have not-Victor during this process. Nonetheless, since the maternity is/would be eventually established that Baby Balkan is biologically Sam’s, Tea’s loses automatically regardless of the circumstances of how the switch took place.

    Are the DNA tests that John/Jason conducted legal?
    No, and the characters have referenced this several times. However, tests have been done and have at the bare minimum opened up the question of Tea’s rights to the kid no matter the identity of the parents, Thus, any court ordered DNA tests would only confirm that Tea is not Danny’s biological mother. Again, Tea loses.

    Who is at fault or liable?
    Ah, the elephant in the room and the basis of all this “the birth certificate establishes parental Tea’s rights” stuff.

    There are (as pointed out earlier) two people responsible for the actual switch (Heather & Todd) and one accessory after the fact (Johnny).

    The hospital could be open to a civil suit for not catching the discrepancies in the medical records. But, as js3557 said, “The birth certificate in question attached to Victor [actually Danny] because he was the child produced at the hospital as Tea’s child. The doctor on duty filled it out and Tea signed it (normal procedure). So that certificate goes with Victor, not the dead child.”

    And this is where the argument falls apart legally: Tea’s assumptive rights as the putative parent to Danny/Victor go out the window (or off the roof, as it were) the moment Tea gains knowledge that a baby switch may have occurred and/or the biological parent/s learn the same information.

    This is further underscored (and the argument undermined) by the age of the child in question: the younger the child, the less likely permanent bonds have been forged with the putative mother and therefore full parental rights and custody are almost automatically guaranteed to be awarded to the biological parent.

    Challenges may occur, but once biological maternity is established, the biological parent gets the kid unless the parents or custodial guardians work out any other agreement, especially as it pertains to older children. And Baby Balkan is approximately 6 months old.

    So, back to the the central question: does Tea have any legal rights to Danny?
    No.

    Otherwise you both are arguing that a “de facto adoption” happened regardless of the fraud (a baby switch) and hospital mistakes (not simply the signing off on a birth certificate but also not catching the medical discrepancies in Danny’s/not-Victor’s charts or the blood types of the parents) took place that in some alternate universe supercedes the rights of the biological parent/s.

    Is that really the argument you want to make?

  45. Avatar of GHFan777
    GHFan777

    Hmmm did your attorney’s state any specific court cases to back up what they told you JBernard? I am not an attorney, nor have I ever studied the law, but personally I think what js has stated makes the most sense to me.

    Everything at this point is conjecture. Nothing has been done to verify that Sam is the mother of Daniel/Victor. We the viewing audience know that she is, but the DNA test that has already been completed, was illegally obtained. Tea did not give consent, nor did Sam give consent for the test performed on the deceased infant. Custody of infants is not decided on emotion and conjecture in these type of cases, but rather on tests where samples are legally obtained and processed by independent labs under supervision. This is a soap and they are constantly taking license and liberties to tell stories…but this would never have played out like this in real life.

  46. Avatar of GHvetfan
    GHvetfan

    I believe I asked the original question about the legalities of Tea not having any rights. I am buying JS’s legal opinion. It makes the most sense. It also has nothing to do with my feelings for Sam or Tea. The birth certificate belongs with the child whose foot prints were taken and labeled as Victor Jr. That is the baby that would have been lojacked as Tea’s child by the hospital. Tea may not be biologically the mother or morally in the right. She is the parent of record. She would be the one to approve medical tests ans procedures. I originally asked about child services. I would expect that the hospital should hace called them and a really good lawyer to ensure they covered their asses asap going forward and for a mistake they didn’t really make. Sam came in with a dead baby and she and Jason said it was hers. Tea and Todd did the same.

    I would have liked 5 minutes with Monica and Diane acting as hospital counsel just to acknowledge that Jason and John may have conducted a test but they should do another. Allow both mothers to visit the child before giving them the test results together. They can take a week to do that and kill Jason the next day.

    I didn’t need a single cap there to express myself.

  47. Avatar of JASAMMABBY
    JASAMMABBY

    I am not a lawyer at all- nor have I ever been involved in a custody battle. However I am fairly certain custody laws change state by state. So even if you think you may know this it could only be in your state.

    For me I am satisfied as it is playing out. Most of our spec is based on what Tea would or should do.. Obviously she realizes it isn’t her child. Also I don’t really need to see legal stuff play out on my screen. I just want to see a sweet goodbye with Tea and a thank you from Sam.

  48. Avatar of TV Gord
    TV Gord

    I am not a lawyer, but I have seen just about every show David E. Kelley has ever made, so I think I qualify. (Of course, I’m not wearing pants right now, so I should probably be a judge.)

  49. Avatar of J Bernard Jones
    J Bernard Jones

    GHFan77 wrote

    Hmmm did your attorney’s state any specific court cases to back up what they told you JBernard? I am not an attorney, nor have I ever studied the law, but personally I think what js has stated makes the most sense to me.

    We did not discuss specific cases. I trust both my attorney and my adoption attorney to know what they are talking about. What “makes sense” is not always what the laws are from state to state (nodding to Jasambaby). Nonetheless, my personal attorney is here in Georgia (who is licensed to practice in DC, Virginia, Pennsylvania and one other state that escapes me), my adoption attorney is in Arkansas and we discussed this “hypothetical case” as it might apply nationally. As such, this question came up: the case involves residents of New York (Port Charles) and Pennsylvania (Llanview); would the interstate nature of the case color the issue of eventual custody? They were confident it would not do so.

    I have no opinion about JS’s opinion except it doesn’t make sense. EVERY legal argument has a presumptive end game. What is the presumptive endgame in the claim that Tea “has rights”? Which brings us to this:

    Everything at this point is conjecture. Nothing has been done to verify that Sam is the mother of Daniel/Victor. We the viewing audience know that she is, but the DNA test that has already been completed, was illegally obtained. Tea did not give consent, nor did Sam give consent for the test performed on the deceased infant. Custody of infants is not decided on emotion and conjecture in these type of cases, but rather on tests where samples are legally obtained and processed by independent labs under supervision. This is a soap and they are constantly taking license and liberties to tell stories…but this would never have played out like this in real life.

    But everything is not conjecture, as far as we the audience is concerned. We are arguing these issues from the position of viewers who a) know the facts of the case that many of the characters do not as they have been presented to us (the babies were switched, Sam’s is alive and Tea’s is dead) and b) what might happen in a real world scenario.

    So, I ask the question again: what is the legal endgame to the claim that Tea “has rights”?

    Is it that Tea should retain custody of a child that is not hers, one that was obtained as a result of fraud and a series of mistakes?

    Is it that Sam’s rights as Danny’s biological mother should be invalidated because Tea unwittingly raised said child who came into her custody as a result of said fraud and said series of mistakes?

    Is it that Tea should be allowed to keep Danny permanently as his mother based on having him for the first 6 months of his life as a result of said fraud and said series of mistakes?

    Is it that “a de facto adoption” happened as a result of said fraud and said series of mistakes? In other words, “finders keepers”?

    So, again I ask you all respectfully, what is the legal endgame to all these “rights” that Tea has as the putative parent of Daniel that she has enjoyed and should continue to enjoy as his “mother” as a result fraud and a series of hospital mistakes?

  50. Avatar of GHvetfan
    GHvetfan

    None of the above! My point lies only in the PCPD wanting only to not compound the situation by handing Sam a baby that turns out was Tea’s in the first place.

  51. Avatar of tealita
    tealita

    [quote=TV Gord]I am not a lawyer, but I have seen just about every show David E. Kelley has ever made, so I think I qualify. (Of course, I’m not wearing pants right now, so I should probably be a judge.)[/quote]

    Ah, TV Gord… ROFL. H) :party:

  52. Avatar of kintex
    kintex

    [quote=TV Gord]I am not a lawyer, but I have seen just about every show David E. Kelley has ever made, so I think I qualify. (Of course, I’m not wearing pants right now, so I should probably be a judge.)[/quote]

    :D :D :D

    @J Bernard
    Since you took the time to research this topic, all I am going to say is that after your consulations with 2 attorneys and the essays above, you are still wrong. No I am not going to pull anything from Lexis or Westlaw to back up what I am saying or individually address all your sub issues. I dont even need to know whose these people are or where they are licensed but I will say this, the next time you are seeking legal help, they would not be my first call.

  53. Avatar of J Bernard Jones
    J Bernard Jones

    TV Gord wrote:

    I am not a lawyer, but I have seen just about every show David E. Kelley has ever made, so I think I qualify. (Of course, I’m not wearing pants right now, so I should probably be a judge.)

    HA! ROFL

  54. Avatar of TV Gord
    TV Gord

    Just when you thought it was safe, I drop a bomb of silliness. Thanks to JASSAMABBY, Tealita, kintex, and anyone else who appreciated it. :bigsmile:

    I’m enjoying the debate, too, but a little levity never hurts. :beer:

  55. Avatar of J Bernard Jones
    J Bernard Jones

    @ Kintex, way to passive aggressively dodge the question/s, but by not addressing the legal endgame — what is Tea supposed to be getting out of all these supposed “rights” she has again? — your argument falls on its face. Whatever that was. :)

  56. Avatar of liason4real
    liason4real

    I don’t know why anyone would believe Todd or Heather, so IMO the best thing to do is to resume the baby that died and do a paternity test on both babies. Of course, RC should have had both women in the same location giving birth while cray cray Heather played her games. :party:

  57. Avatar of kintex
    kintex

    @JBernard. Let me be clear, I did not dodge your question, I chose not to address it because it is not an issue relevant to the point I made. I still stand by what I stated that at this time, Tea is the legal parent. You dont have to agree with me, but since you went to the trouble to do all that research, I felt compelled to point that out.

  58. Avatar of J Bernard Jones
    J Bernard Jones

    @kintex, now it’s time for me be clear, so we’re both clear: Tea has been wronged. Terribly so. She’s had terrible things happen to her as a character within this baby switching plot specifically and I even see the point of those who feel Carlivati has “piled on,” putting the character through sheer hell. I get it, I understand it. I’ve gone as far to agree or partially agree with you and others on several specific points you raised. I am a great fan of the character and the actress, as I have stated on several occasions both here and when OLTL was on the air. As a viewer and a fan, I am sympathetic to her plight, screaming and all — and nobody does the Latina rebel yell better than Lozano.

    However discussing the “rights” that Tea supposedly has regarding Baby Balkan leads to one and only one logical question: the “rights” to what exactly? You (and JS’s) claim that Tea is the legal parent. To what legal end do those rights extend for Tea given she obtained the child through a combination of fraud and negligence? Dodging thatquestion or choosing not to answer it is a distinction without a difference.

    I wanted to get the real world answers, not assume them into existence, thus no “trouble” gone to at all.

    I felt compelled to point that out, too. :)

  59. Avatar of js3557
    js3557

    JBernard – This phrase “legal endgame” is not a legal term I have ever heard of. I went through pre-law, law school, and have been a prosecutor in MA for 17 years. In all of those years, the term “legal endgame” has never come up in any case law, text book or statute I have read. If you mean what is the legal basis or foundation for my opinion, then I would have tell you that the fact that the birth certificate lists Tea as the mom coupled with the fact that she has raised him, means that Tea has rights at this point. If you go back to my earlier posts, I never said that Tea would win in the end. My point then, and my point now, is that the baby would not just be handed over to Sam in the way he was. The DNA test would be inadmissible.

    NY is more similiar legally to MA than to southern states. There are major differences between northern liberal states and conservative southern states in the way they address custody issues. And, for the record, I don’t mean liberal/conservative in stricly political terms. I mean liberal/conservative in the legal community. In MA, the baby would be given back to Tea and a DCF (Dept of Children and Families) worker would be appointed. Sam would have to file for relief in probate court. The probate court would appoint a guardian ad litem for the child and would order an official DNA test. When the results showed that Sam is the mom, the court would then address custody. The standard of review in MA is “the best interests of the child”. Biology doesn’t always cut in MA or in NY. With that said, Sam would win in the end because the child is so young, because Jason will be gone, and because Tea would not fight it.

    Sassy – People who claim to be something they are not online are pathetic. I don’t care if you don’t believe that I am an attorney because I am secure in who I am and what I am. Your opinion means less than nothing to me (a negative integer perhaps?)

  60. Avatar of js3557
    js3557

    JBernard – The rights Tea have, at least in MA, are based on the fact that the maternity of the baby as listed on the birth certificate has not been proven legally incorrect as of yet. She is the custodial parent until and unless she is proven not to be the bio mom. Once that is accomplished, the MA standard of review (best interest of the child) would be used to determine custody.

  61. Avatar of kintex
    kintex

    All I will say is this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Tea has been wronged, whether you are a fan, or any supposed future legal rights which is why I said I didnt address your questions before because they are not relevant. I am not advocating for Tea to take Sam’s child lol. This is Sam’s baby I know that but at that point in time in the hospital, Tea is still the legal parent.

  62. Avatar of GHvetfan
    GHvetfan

    Kintex – I don’t believe anyone is advocating that Tea takes the baby. This whole argument started because I commented that Sam was just given the baby on John and Jason’s word. I too think J Bernard needs new lawyers. I doubt there is a state in the union that would ignore Tea’s plight and hand that baby to another woman without the research J Bernard has done. That was the basis of my comment. Jason says hey the baby is Sam’s and everybody agrees without question. I would certainly be screaming if I was Tea. JS – you have the patience of a saint.

    I cannot for the life of me figure out how this debate can be charactetized as antiSam.

  63. Avatar of sassysdreams
    sassysdreams

    In my opinion until it was proven differently Tea should have be arrested for kidnapping!!! After all, she was with Todd when she gave birth, she was with Todd before and after the kidnapping occurred, she saw the baby that she gave birth to so she knew he did not look like the one she took home, she knew the child she took home had a genetic disease that couldn’t have come from her or her husband and yet she said nothing, she was with Todd in the hospital, and she was with Todd when he flew her home to Llanview on his private jet.

    Sam knew immediately when she saw the baby she was given that it wasn’t her son. I’m certain Tea knew the same thing when she saw the baby that Todd replaced her son with. And yet, she said nothing! If we the viewers hadn’t actually seen what had occurred, how would we know that she was not an integral part of the kidnapping?

    And not even being mentioned is that when Todd flew Tea and the baby across state lines it became a Federal crime. In my state of Virginia, (not sure if it would be considered a liberal northern state or a conservative southern state since its in the middle) Tea would have been arrested along with Todd and Heather for conspiring to and kidnapping baby Danny. Once the truth came out and she could prove that she was an innocent victim, the charges would be dropped. But until she could prove that she was not complicit, which would be hard to do for the very reasons I stated above, she would not be permitted to take a kidnapped child home with her.

    I’m glad I don’t live in a state where a possible kidnapper’s questionable parental rights takes priority over the victim’s rights!!!

  64. Avatar of liason4real
    liason4real

    When Tea gave birth, Todd refused to allow her to even hold the baby in her arms. The baby was half the size of the one that Sam gave birth to which made no sense at all since Tea was full term. Todd held the baby which was wrapped up in a scarf close to his chest and despite Tea’s screams he never once showed her the baby’s face. If Tea had seen the baby when he was born, she would have been able to recognize that Sam’s baby was not her child. Sam saw her baby at birth and Tea did not which was the whole point of the baby switch story line.

  65. Avatar of soapster
    soapster

    First off all the legal expertise in here is delightful. He is my two cents, Tea has legal custody of the baby, the baby would have been placed with child protective services because I am sure a good lawyer Alexis would have demanded it because of the fear of Tea running off with the baby. A court ordered DNA test would have been performed and the moment it was found who the biological mother was the baby would have been given to Sam. It would have not taken months or years for this to play out because Tea has no standing in this at all. the mother never signed her rights away. It was a baby switch or kidnapping.

    I am glad they didn’t drag this out because it has been one bad plot point after another.

  66. Avatar of GHvetfan
    GHvetfan

    I am glad I do not live in Sassy’s guilty until proven innocent world although I am sure she doesn’t mean to have Sam live by those standards. Afterall, Sam was complicit in Jake’s kidnapping. Sam, according to SamFF, shouldn’t have answer to any of her crimes because she was grieving or had just given birth. Tea, not being Sam, should be punished for losing her child and being lied to and her biggest crime is not being Sam.

  67. Avatar of sassysdreams
    sassysdreams

    GHvetfan – Please do not put your words into my mouth or claim to know how I feel about Sam or any other character. You do not know me and you have absolutely no idea how I feel about any of the characters or actors on GH or any other show for that matter!

    My theory is no more preposterous than any of the others given here. And at least it is based on the few facts that are known by the people of PC. A person who is raising a kidnapped child that they know was delivered under highly unusual circumstances with only Todd (a raping, kidnapping murderer) as a witness and which has a disease that could not have come from either of its biolgoical parents, is of course going to appear guilty of that kidnapping at first glance. That is only natural. Certainly a lot more credible than those claiming she adopted the baby because she took him home with an illegal birth certificate or that she now has parental rights because she kept a kidnapped child away from its mother for six months.

  68. Avatar of GHvetfan
    GHvetfan

    Sassy – i am not sure how I put words in your mouth. I was just expressing gratitude that the world isn’t guilt until innocence proven which were your words.

  69. Avatar of GHvetfan
    GHvetfan

    Ravennite- my favorite part about the ridiculousness of that Tea as kidnapper comment is that Sassy thinks Tea should be arrested until cleared of wrongdoing but would defend Sam for her part in Jake’s kidnapping.

    Unbelievable!

    Sassy- i just want to tell you that I truly look forward to your posts. I love your passion and devotion to Kelly Monaco and Sam. I have nothing but respect for your willingness to go balls to the walls as my husband would say. I may not feel the same way about the actress and character but I love reading the posts. Rock on!

  70. Avatar of JasamForever
    JasamForever

    These out of the blue so supportive comments regarding Tea from LizFF are just too funny. I have enjoyed GH lately and I am going to enjoy the remaining Jasam family scenes that are to be continued when and or if Steve B returns.

    Anything to be negative against Sam……

    The idea that the courts would determine who ultimately receives baby Daniel, even after maternity is established based on what is the best interest of the child does not make any sense to me??????

  71. Avatar of js3557
    js3557

    How is anything I said negative against Sam? I said Sam would get her baby back. I never said she shouldn’t or that she did something wrong. I said the process of just giving the baby over to her without the court being involved was wrong. How in the world could that be interpreted as anti-Sam? If the legal standard of “best interest of the child” is confusing to you, you could always attend a basic family law class at your local community college. It’s really not a complicated standard to understand.

    An example to help you out: Baby is kidnapped and switched by someone other than the woman who ends up with him. Maternity comes out after court ordered DNA test. Judge is then informed that the woman who has raised him up until now is an employed, stable woman with a home, stable income, and ties to the community. Judge is then informed that bio-mom is a crack head living in a shelter with no education, no job, and still actively using drugs. Best interest of the child would dictate that the child remain with nonbio-mom. I am not saying this is similar to Tea/Sam, or that Sam is similar to a crack head (which is why I said with Jason gone, Sam would get her baby back without a doubt). I am just using this as a clear cut example for easy understanding of the concept.

  72. Avatar of SoapGirl
    SoapGirl

    Glad she got her baby back but I did not like the way they treated Tea, keeping her from the baby she believed to be hers when he was dangling off that building. By law she had every right to that baby until the courts changed things. Legally the child is still Tea’s. They would have to show me with a legal DNA test before they took my child.

  73. Avatar of maxsmom
    maxsmom

    this is a case where I think “keeping it real” would be soapier than the writer’s vision-I think JS is more than simply legally sound, it would be more interesting than what is playing out-2 good women who feel that the child belongs with her, neither having played a part in any shenanigans-of course the child ends up with Sam but what a great November sweeps

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